Al's Place Quantum Leap Online Community

Al's Place Quantum Leap Online Community (http://quantumleap-alsplace.com/forum/index.php)
-   Quantum Leap General Discussion (http://quantumleap-alsplace.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   Interesting Observations/Facts/Questions about Quantum Leap (http://quantumleap-alsplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6331)

Sam Beckett Fan 09-28-2013 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue enigma
I remember reading it in a thread here on this forum. I think it was Carol Davis who actually talked about this, but I can't find the discussion.

I'll take your word for that. Al's Place was next guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue enigma
Plus, who didn't want to see Al leap into a woman and be on the receiving end of what he usually dishes out?

Oh good Lord, all hell would break loose!
You know he'd be checking "himself" out in full length mirrors and thus receive groans of sickness from Sam. :roflmao:

blue enigma 09-28-2013 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60456)
You know he'd be checking "himself" out in full length mirrors and thus receive groans of sickness from Sam. :roflmao:

Maybe not. Remember, Sam had that part of Al's mind from the simo-leap, so he's the one who might've actually been checking out Al's reflection and saying yummola, lol.

Sam Beckett Fan 09-28-2013 09:26 PM

Right if it's during the The Leap Back trilogy that's true. Oh that's even more hell breaking loose! Naughty Sam! XD
Sam totally needed in the diner scene to have a line to the effect of:
"Welcome to working with YOU."

wakkanne 09-28-2013 11:25 PM

Al Leaping along with Sam would have been cool, but I'm afraid that I too would have lost interest after a while if they had gone on in some of the ways they were suggesting for a season 6. In that sense, I'm almost happy it ended when it did. While I would have loved to see the show go on for many more years, they were getting away from what made the show so popular towards the end, there. I'm afraid of instead of saying, "Oh, I wish it didn't end when it did. It could have easily gone on for another three years", I may have been saying, "Quantum Leap was great for the first four seasons, but then it started going downhill in season 5. Sure it went on for 8 years, but only the first four are really worth watching."

I know that a lot of season 5 was them being at the mercy of the network, and it's sad. Too bad they couldn't just leave the show alone.

Sam Beckett Fan 09-28-2013 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakkanne
I may have been saying, "Quantum Leap was great for the first four seasons, but then it started going downhill in season 5. Sure it went on for 8 years, but only the first four are really worth watching."

Agreed. Tragically the fifth season lost all of the show's intended direction and feeling; the celebrity leaps and though I enjoy them the evil leapers. Such story lines broke every rule and turned the show into a gimmick. The Evil Leapers in particular were a total Star Wars type of sci-fi stunt.
I do fear that if it had gone on it would have continued down that path, in fact having Al as a second leaper may have even made it worse. Not that he wouldn't make an entertaining leaper but that it's over the top and turns Al into exactly what Sam was to Donna (recall Sam corrected his failure in MIA and restored Al's marriage to Beth). And Sorry can't really say I am a Sammy Jo fan and having her as a hologram will probably just reinforce that rather than change my mind. Granted we only get to know her as a child and people can change greatly by adulthood. As a member of the project she probably became more serious and level headed however I can't help but also keep in mind that young adult Abigail was still a brat.

That and the young adult Sammy Jo portrayed in Loch Ness Leap while not canon is still stuck in my head. Good lord it was child Abigail all over again! I wanted so badly to slap her!

blue enigma 09-28-2013 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakkanne (Post 60460)
Al Leaping along with Sam would have been cool, but I'm afraid that I too would have lost interest after a while if they had gone on in some of the ways they were suggesting for a season 6. In that sense, I'm almost happy it ended when it did. While I would have loved to see the show go on for many more years, they were getting away from what made the show so popular towards the end, there. I'm afraid of instead of saying, "Oh, I wish it didn't end when it did. It could have easily gone on for another three years", I may have been saying, "Quantum Leap was great for the first four seasons, but then it started going downhill in season 5. Sure it went on for 8 years, but only the first four are really worth watching."

I know that a lot of season 5 was them being at the mercy of the network, and it's sad. Too bad they couldn't just leave the show alone.

Agreed with all of this.

There's a proposed script with a teaser for a season 6 opener that's posted on this site, and if that's anything to go by Al and the project have actually lost contact with Sam a long time ago. I don't know exactly what they had planned beyond that scene but if it was Al leaping with Sammie Jo as his hologram searching for Sam who they have no contact with I would have definitely lost interest quickly. The chemistry and dynamic between Sam and Al is what made the show.

wakkanne 09-29-2013 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue enigma (Post 60462)
There's a proposed script with a teaser for a season 6 opener that's posted on this site, and if that's anything to go by Al and the project have actually lost contact with Sam a long time ago. I don't know exactly what they had planned beyond that scene but if it was Al leaping with Sammie Jo as his hologram searching for Sam who they have no contact with I would have definitely lost interest quickly. The chemistry and dynamic between Sam and Al is what made the show.

Yeah, I read that and although intriguing, it made me wary. One can only hope that it was just going to be for a couple of episodes, then things might have gone back to normal, but who knows!

One more reason why I was never sure I wanted to see what they might have come up with for a Quantum Leap movie. That would have been fun, too, but Bellisario and Pratt would have had to be very careful and tread lightly on some of the Sammy Jo stuff they might have had, if any.

wakkanne 09-29-2013 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60461)
That and the young adult Sammy Jo portrayed in Loch Ness Leap while not canon is still stuck in my head. Good lord it was child Abigail all over again! I wanted so badly to slap her!

Haha! Love it! :D

Sam Beckett Fan 09-29-2013 12:34 AM

Honestly I don't understand how Sam could have continued leaping as himself. He can't go around telling others that he's a time traveler from the future who knows something bad is going to happen in their lives. It's not believable. In the case of Beth, he had that he was a friend of Al's. He won't have such excuses elsewhere. It just doesn't make any sense.

Agreed, that Sam and Al's chemistry is what made the show.
Hypothetically if anyone should be enlisted to search for a lost Sam it should be the now freed Alia. In fact years ago I created a thread here on this forum suggesting an opening for such a storyline. It's still here and I dug it up recently.
http://www.quantumleap-alsplace.com/...ead.php?t=3529

Please keep in mind that today the writing would be much better quality. I've improved since then.

blue enigma 09-29-2013 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60466)
Honestly I don't understand how Sam could have continued leaping as himself. He can't go around telling others that he's a time traveler from the future who knows something bad is going to happen in their lives. It's not believable. In the case of Beth, he had that he was a friend of Al's. He won't have such excuses elsewhere. It just doesn't make any sense.

If he did continue on this way he would have to find other methods for accomplishing his mission on each of the leaps. Maybe that's part of what the bartender meant when he said Sam was about to embark on a difficult new assignment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60466)
Hypothetically if anyone should be enlisted to search for a lost Sam it should be the now freed Alia.

This is one plausible scenario. However, for all we know she's in the same boat as Sam and can't help herself either. I'm not a fan of the evil leaper story line and I really hate the last one in the trilogy so I don't rewatch. But I remember questioning how Ziggy could possibly know that Alia was free. It's possible she died and can help Sam in the same way Stawpah helped Pete and Tonchi and indirectly Sam in 'Mirror Image'.

wakkanne 09-29-2013 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60466)
Hypothetically if anyone should be enlisted to search for a lost Sam it should be the now freed Alia. In fact years ago I created a thread here on this forum suggesting an opening for such a storyline. It's still here and I dug it up recently.
http://www.quantumleap-alsplace.com/...ead.php?t=3529

I like it. Sounds cool. And I do some of my best writing after midnight! House is quiet and I'm alone with my thoughts. :D I too liked Alia and I actually had my own theories about the "evil Leaper" and explored some of it in a "what if" story, a fanfiction based on my fanfiction, if you will, written in 1995, but takes place in October 2013! Sam is 60 and has now been home for ten years. When he encounters Alia (who is still Leaping), she looks exactly the same as when he last saw her. She tells him that she's not from an alternate or evil dimension, but from a dark future, 2043, and she was a guinea pig in an experiment conducted by a project that used stolen technology from PQL. I suggested that she might have even been a descendant of Sam and that's why they chose her as their Leaper. Anyway, it was just a theory that I had fun playing around with at the time. It was hard to imagine Sam at 60 way back in 1995... But you know, I wasn't far off!

------------
Saturday, October 5, 2013
By: Suzanne Smiley
Written: August 19, 1995
Revised: July 3, 2013

Creak…Creak…Creak…
Sam Beckett leaned back in the rustic porch swing of his suburban home in Rio Rancho, New Mexico. The swing was old, but then so was he. Two months ago had been his sixtieth birthday.
A small wind picked up, scattering leaves around the front lawn, rustling his greying hair, which had once been brown.
It felt good, sitting on the porch, observing the neighborhood on such a cool autumn afternoon. Actually, it just felt good to be himself, to be home. It had been ten years since he’d Leaped home for good and eighteen years since he had first stepped into the accelerator, sending his secure world into oblivion...
That day, ten years ago, was August 8, 2003, the day he turned fifty. So what? Now he was sixty. After spending so many years trapped in the past, Sam had promised himself he wouldn’t reminisce too much about his own. And yet here he was, doing that exact thing.
The wind blew again, a little more harshly and a little more cold. Sam frowned and zipped his jacket up further, sliding his time weathered hands into his pockets, shivering a bit.
Well, he didn’t feel sixty. That much he could say. Of course, eight years had been lacerated from his life. Although, Sam knew he had accomplished more in those eight years that he had in these past ten.
That bothered him. He didn’t want to spend the last twenty or thirty years of his life rotting away. Sam hated to admit it, but he missed Leaping. He actually missed Leaping. He didn’t miss being away from his family and wondering if he would ever come home, but he missed the helping people part, the satisfaction he derived from a job well done... it just wasn’t the same as it used to be. Nothing ever was.
Sam frowned. Taking his hands out of his pockets, he reached for his guitar, which was propped up between its case and the porch railing.
“Damn the cold,” he mumbled as he began to strum a few chords. At first disorganized, but gradually the rhythm became more clear and focused. Sam began to sing softly, “Imagine there’s no heaven…”
Suddenly it was November 26, 1969, Thanksgiving Day. It was cool, like now. His little sister, Katie, was sitting on the porch swing next to him, on the family farm in Elk Ridge, Indiana, looking up at him expectantly.
“And John,” she’d said. “What’s John gonna do? He’s my favorite!” she added with a giggle.
Sam never told her, but he did sing her that song. “It’s easy if you try…”
It was a touching scene between him and his sister, but it had not ended well. Katie had run to their mother, crying. She was afraid that if Sam knew the future, then he must be telling the truth about Tom dying in Vietnam.
Sam stopped playing. Tom didn’t die in Vietnam. That was because in one of his Leaps, Sam had saved his brother. So, Tom Beckett didn’t die.
Tom was still living in Indiana with his wife, Angie. He’d had two kids and three grandkids because of his little brother.
It really messes with your mind...
------------

Sam Beckett Fan 09-29-2013 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue enigma (Post 60467)
This is one plausible scenario. However, for all we know she's in the same boat as Sam and can't help herself either. I'm not a fan of the evil leaper story line and I really hate the last one in the trilogy so I don't rewatch. But I remember questioning how Ziggy could possibly know that Alia was free. It's possible she died and can help Sam in the same way Stawpah helped Pete and Tonchi and indirectly Sam in 'Mirror Image'.

Agreed, while I did enjoy the Evil Leapers I felt the third in the trilogy took it too far with making Zoey a leaper. Because I am such a sucker for mush I have come to be able to watch it up until after Sam rescues screaming Alia from the wall and comforts her in his arms.

Also I have recently entertained that Alia could have been killed by that bullet and by "free" it meant death. This is one of my favorite angles in Knights of the Morningstar, how Alia pondered actually trying to get Sam to kill her to free herself. A dead Alia could still take on the task of finding Sam if in fact she ended up as Stawpah did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakkanne
Sam is 60 and has now been home for ten years. When he encounters Alia (who is still Leaping), she looks exactly the same as when he last saw her. She tells him that she's not from an alternate or evil dimension, but from a dark future, 2043, and she was a guinea pig in an experiment conducted by a project that used stolen technology from PQL. I suggested that she might have even been a descendant of Sam and that's why they chose her as their Leaper. Anyway, it was just a theory that I had fun playing around with at the time. It was hard to imagine Sam at 60 way back in 1995... But you know, I wasn't far off!

Dang, that's insane though honestly Alia doesn't fit as Sam's descendent or rather that doesn't fit as a reason for her to have been their chosen Leaper. It's explained that Zoey was intended but she owed Alia (for what they don't reveal) so insisted they go with her.

If you think 60 is hard to picture Sam at try 80-something! My best friend wrote an amazing fanfic about how after Al passes away his spirit wondered until it's able to bring an 80-something year old Sam home. He's reunited with Donna and Beth and is able to meet his children and grandchildren. Donna had been impregnated during The Leap Back with a daughter we named Chelsea after Scott's daughter (we did this whole storyline around that idea though we never actually got to write the birth). Soon after however after making love to Donna one last time he passes away in his sleep and is reunited with Al. It had been inspired by the song Fate's Wide Wheel, the line which pleads for "one final leap" earning the fic it's title. I assisted in writing his death (though I am not sure I am pleased with that writing anymore).
She even wrote out the family tree where she named and gave personalities to Al's four daughters and even had some of the Calavicci line marry into the Beckett line.

wakkanne 09-29-2013 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60470)
Dang, that's insane though honestly Alia doesn't fit as Sam's descendent or rather that doesn't fit as a reason for her to have been their chosen Leaper. It's explained that Zoey was intended but she owed Alia (for what they don't reveal) so insisted they go with her.

Like I said, it was entirely theoretical and a fanfiction to my fanfiction, so not "cannon" to my series at all. It was fun to play around with, and interesting since the events took place less than a month from now. :) However, even so, my current actual "cannon to my series" stories are more interesting to me right now. I'm tempted to cut to and finish my "Leaping Sam home story" that I've entitled, "Driven By An Unknown Force", but then I would be doing the same thing I did back in high school... skipping ahead and not finishing the stories that came before it. I need to finish the early ones so that everyone can enjoy reading them other than me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60470)
If you think 60 is hard to picture Sam at try 80-something! My best friend wrote an amazing fanfic about how after Al passes away his spirit wondered until it's able to bring an 80-something year old Sam home. He's reunited with Donna and Beth and is able to meet his children and grandchildren. Donna had been impregnated during The Leap Back with a daughter we named Chelsea after Scott's daughter (we did this whole storyline around that idea though we never actually got to write the birth). Soon after however after making love to Donna one last time he passes away in his sleep and is reunited with Al. It had been inspired by the song Fate's Wide Wheel, the line which pleads for "one final leap" earning the fic it's title. I assisted in writing his death (though I am not sure I am pleased with that writing anymore).
She even wrote out the family tree where she named and gave personalities to Al's four daughters and even had some of the Calavicci line marry into the Beckett line.

Wow, that sounds powerful and amazing, but I don't know if I could ever read through that. I'd probably be bawling the entire time! :)

Sam Beckett Fan 09-29-2013 01:55 AM

Back then I felt the same, that the idea was so tragic it would be tough to handle. That and it begins with him fulfilling a final leap in which he needed to convince the Leapee's wife to see a doctor because her cancer was returning(but if she saw a doctor right away she could beat it again). Though I have gotten better now I was once quite the pathophobic which is fear of disease. What I enjoyed most though was how she had written just for me a mush scene where the wife is terrified to think that her cancer had returned and Sam comforts her.

Lightning McQueenie 09-30-2013 04:08 AM

OK, I have to say I totally disagree with the idea that Alia is dead. For one thing, that would mean Zoe succeeded in her leap and would have leapt away immediately afterwards, not have her asking Thames where she went and then settling for the consolation prize of killing Sam. Also, it would totally go against the basic premise of the show, which is doing good and good triumphing over evil. There is no way any writer of the show would allow that.

The reason Ziggy knew that Alia was free was because of the way she leapt - since she leapt blue instead of red, that means that Ziggy could tell she was being leapt by the good force and not the evil force. The only way the good force could leap her away was because she had been released from the evil force, thus freed.

MichelleD 09-30-2013 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakkanne (Post 60468)
I like it. Sounds cool. And I do some of my best writing after midnight! House is quiet and I'm alone with my thoughts. :D I too liked Alia and I actually had my own theories about the "evil Leaper" and explored some of it in a "what if" story, a fanfiction based on my fanfiction, if you will, written in 1995, but takes place in October 2013! Sam is 60 and has now been home for ten years. When he encounters Alia (who is still Leaping), she looks exactly the same as when he last saw her. She tells him that she's not from an alternate or evil dimension, but from a dark future, 2043, and she was a guinea pig in an experiment conducted by a project that used stolen technology from PQL. I suggested that she might have even been a descendant of Sam and that's why they chose her as their Leaper. Anyway, it was just a theory that I had fun playing around with at the time. It was hard to imagine Sam at 60 way back in 1995... But you know, I wasn't far off!

------------
Saturday, October 5, 2013
By: Suzanne Smiley
Written: August 19, 1995
Revised: July 3, 2013

Creak…Creak…Creak…
Sam Beckett leaned back in the rustic porch swing of his suburban home in Rio Rancho, New Mexico. The swing was old, but then so was he. Two months ago had been his sixtieth birthday.
A small wind picked up, scattering leaves around the front lawn, rustling his greying hair, which had once been brown.
It felt good, sitting on the porch, observing the neighborhood on such a cool autumn afternoon. Actually, it just felt good to be himself, to be home. It had been ten years since he’d Leaped home for good and eighteen years since he had first stepped into the accelerator, sending his secure world into oblivion...
That day, ten years ago, was August 8, 2003, the day he turned fifty. So what? Now he was sixty. After spending so many years trapped in the past, Sam had promised himself he wouldn’t reminisce too much about his own. And yet here he was, doing that exact thing.
The wind blew again, a little more harshly and a little more cold. Sam frowned and zipped his jacket up further, sliding his time weathered hands into his pockets, shivering a bit.
Well, he didn’t feel sixty. That much he could say. Of course, eight years had been lacerated from his life. Although, Sam knew he had accomplished more in those eight years that he had in these past ten.
That bothered him. He didn’t want to spend the last twenty or thirty years of his life rotting away. Sam hated to admit it, but he missed Leaping. He actually missed Leaping. He didn’t miss being away from his family and wondering if he would ever come home, but he missed the helping people part, the satisfaction he derived from a job well done... it just wasn’t the same as it used to be. Nothing ever was.
Sam frowned. Taking his hands out of his pockets, he reached for his guitar, which was propped up between its case and the porch railing.
“Damn the cold,” he mumbled as he began to strum a few chords. At first disorganized, but gradually the rhythm became more clear and focused. Sam began to sing softly, “Imagine there’s no heaven…”
Suddenly it was November 26, 1969, Thanksgiving Day. It was cool, like now. His little sister, Katie, was sitting on the porch swing next to him, on the family farm in Elk Ridge, Indiana, looking up at him expectantly.
“And John,” she’d said. “What’s John gonna do? He’s my favorite!” she added with a giggle.
Sam never told her, but he did sing her that song. “It’s easy if you try…”
It was a touching scene between him and his sister, but it had not ended well. Katie had run to their mother, crying. She was afraid that if Sam knew the future, then he must be telling the truth about Tom dying in Vietnam.
Sam stopped playing. Tom didn’t die in Vietnam. That was because in one of his Leaps, Sam had saved his brother. So, Tom Beckett didn’t die.
Tom was still living in Indiana with his wife, Angie. He’d had two kids and three grandkids because of his little brother.
It really messes with your mind...
------------

Oh, I like this Suzanne! Very imaginative and a bit eerie too. It really does make you think about what Sam might have had to deal with if he'd made it home after years of Leaping. The Leap Home is such a great episode too. :)

Sam Beckett Fan 09-30-2013 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie (Post 60497)
OK, I have to say I totally disagree with the idea that Alia is dead. For one thing, that would mean Zoe succeeded in her leap and would have leapt away immediately afterwards

Let's not forget the the Evil Project managed to perfect their leaping and could control when and into whom they go as well as being able to retrieve their leapers. Also remember that there was a 48 hour window for Zoey's leap. She needed to be brought back within that time limit whether she succeeded or not or else be stuck in random leap mode as Sam is.
Their leaping is not based on success because they control it. In the first Evil Leapers episode both Alia and Zoey were retrieved and punished after failing.
It's actually implied to be unclear if even Sam's leaping is based on success. Catch a Falling Star and Leap for Lisa are episodes in which they seem to think it's not.

@MichelleD: Read her "Oh Boy" beginnings in the 'DvD Sets With All The Music' thread, she really is terrific.
I have my own beginning there as well which needs work in itself let alone the entire fanfiction be finished. She's given me a more believable approach to my opening.

wakkanne 09-30-2013 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60507)
@MichelleD: Read her "Oh Boy" beginnings in the 'DvD Sets With All The Music' thread, she really is terrific.
I have my own beginning there as well which needs work in itself let alone the entire fanfiction be finished. She's given me a more believable approach to my opening.

Aw, shucks... :D

Lightning McQueenie 10-01-2013 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60507)
Let's not forget the the Evil Project managed to perfect their leaping and could control when and into whom they go as well as being able to retrieve their leapers. Also remember that there was a 48 hour window for Zoey's leap. She needed to be brought back within that time limit whether she succeeded or not or else be stuck in random leap mode as Sam is.
Their leaping is not based on success because they control it. In the first Evil Leapers episode both Alia and Zoey were retrieved and punished after failing.
It's actually implied to be unclear if even Sam's leaping is based on success. Catch a Falling Star and Leap for Lisa are episodes in which they seem to think it's not.

Sorry but this is also incorrect.

Quote:

Zoe: Now Thames! Don't forget, I am here on borrowed time.

Thames: You are here until you do what you have been sent here to do...

Zoe: I have a 48 hour window after my first leap to get home. After that, after every leap, the percentage drops!
So even though the Evil Project has more control over the leaping, the leapers still can not leap until the mission has been completed. That's why Zoe was so worried and kept hurrying Thames, she knew that if she didn't complete the mission within the 48 hours she would not be able to leap and so could be lost in time like Alia and Sam were.

Mind you, the condition that the mission needs to be completed does NOT mean that the mission has to be a success. In fact, all three times we see a leaper from their project leap out, it's after they have FAILED - the first time Alia failed to kill Sam, the second time Alia failed to ensure that Sam/Arnold would end up dead, and finally the third time is when Zoe has failed to kill Alia and has been shot by Sam, thereby making it impossible for her to attempt to kill Sam. So you are correct that their leaping isn't based on success, but (and I don't think Diane McBride would appreciate me using her words in this context, but too bad) the important thing is that they try. They are never able to leap until they either succeed or get to a point where there is no possibility of success.

Also, just because "fate worse than death" awaits them if they fail, does not necessarily mean they get leapt back to their project - in fact, it's well known that they CAN'T get Alia back, so how could they torture her there. It must just be that Lothos leaps them to a place and time where they end up tortured...

Sam Beckett Fan 10-01-2013 02:04 AM

Alright, I admit my mistake in understanding the condition of Zoey's leap, I don't watch Revenge as much because while I enjoy the evil leapers I felt they took it too far making Zoey a leaper.

I however don't believe success was vital to how immediate her leap out was. This is why:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie
Mind you, the condition that the mission needs to be completed does NOT mean that the mission has to be a success...They are never able to leap until they either succeed or get to a point where there is no possibility of success.

In Deliver Us from Evil, they were leaped out immediately upon failure. In Return Of The Evil Leaper, Zoey demanded Alia's removal though there could have still been room for success. When Sam leaped out the real Arnold would have returned where he'd be accessible by Alia for termination. It's made clear that Arnold was her assignment not Sam as it's directly revealed that they were initially unaware that the Arnold they were dealing with was in fact Sam.
As I said, their leaps are controlled, they can be extracted whenever desired. The reason Zoey probably wasn't immediately was because Alia's leap out had perplexed the Evil Project. In between Alia's leap out and Zoey catching the second bullet Thames had been pressing buttons on his handlink frantically trying to figure out what had happened to Alia. Thus not giving the command as Zoey did in the previous episode to have Zoey extracted. Then she was killed (if memory serves) thus that is probably what ended up triggering the leap.
In fact since they wouldn't be able to lock on to Alia from that point on, they probably never knew whether she'd caught that bullet or not thus nor if Zoey succeeded or failed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighning McQueenie
does not necessarily mean they get leapt back to their project - in fact, it's well known that they CAN'T get Alia back...

O_o It is? Wait, are you referring to their not being able to retrieve her after she leaped out in Revenge?

Donofrio_QLTD 10-01-2013 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60512)
Alright, I admit my mistake in understanding the condition of Zoey's leap, I don't watch Revenge as much because while I enjoy the evil leapers I felt they took it too far making Zoey a leaper.

I however don't believe success was vital to how immediate her leap out was. This is why:



In Deliver Us from Evil, they were leaped out immediately upon failure. In Return Of The Evil Leaper, Zoey demanded Alia's removal though there could have still been room for success. When Sam leaped out the real Arnold would have returned where he'd be accessible by Alia for termination. It's made clear that Arnold was her assignment not Sam as it's directly revealed that they were initially unaware that the Arnold they were dealing with was in fact Sam.
As I said, their leaps are controlled, they can be extracted whenever desired. The reason Zoey probably wasn't immediately was because Alia's leap out had perplexed the Evil Project. In between Alia's leap out and Zoey catching the second bullet Thames had been pressing buttons on his handlink frantically trying to figure out what had happened to Alia. Thus not giving the command as Zoey did in the previous episode to have Zoey extracted. Then she was killed (if memory serves) thus that is probably what ended up triggering the leap.
In fact since they wouldn't be able to lock on to Alia from that point on, they probably never knew whether she'd caught that bullet or not thus nor if Zoey succeeded or failed.



O_o It is? Wait, are you referring to their not being able to retrieve her after she leaped out in Revenge?

I guess that what he/she meant was that Alia was lost in time from the beginning, just as Sam was, and that's why they couldn't get her back.

By the way, I don't believe Alia is dead, either. She just went on and lived a normal life away from Zoey and Lothos and perhaps even from the leaps themselves. That's why she was free.

Sam Beckett Fan 10-01-2013 06:50 PM

I'm afraid I'm still lost, they retrieved Alia after every leap thus whether it's their project whatever that may be or not in which they return her, they do.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding the notion however, what is meant by unable to get her back? Unless it was referring to after her leap out in Revenge, at which point, yeah they were unable to retrieve her as she had been disconnected from them.

Not long ago I discussed a theory I had come up with while reading Knights of the Morningstar with my best friend. Upon noticing that Alia is quite a bit better than Sam at thinking on her feet and being 'in-character' paired with her controlled leaping it occurred to me that perhaps she is prepared for her role before she is sent out. This does fit with Zoey skipping the introduction of her host in Return of the Evil Leaper, right to the assignment. It's pretty harmless to wait to dish out the assignment upon arrival. In fact It seems quite a bit like Lothos doesn't know himself much like Ziggy.

The way Alia's leaping was explained in Knights of the Morningstar doesn't quite fit (I explain this in it's thread) but I like the idea and that she obviously paid careful attention to Return of the Evil Leaper and put little details together. It was very well thought out.

samnal 10-01-2013 07:25 PM

Deb Pratt and Sam & Donna
 
[quote=wakkanne;60432]Is that true that Deborah regretted having Sam married to Donna? It would explain a lot.
I interviewed Deborah for an online local fan blog about 20 years ago. She said and I quote...she was my character, wasn't she? Not Don's not anyone elses. She was not crazy about Leap Back. I did the interview just after it was aired. There was much more they could have done and I do not include Donna in any of my fic unless she is some kind of post leap where she was never in Sam's life after he was dumped by her. Or she is a shrew. IMHO she was selfish, and a terrible person and the Sam that married her was a different person than the one that had a heart and put that into the work he had to do. Debra did not write a character who would want to sacrifice Al for her having Sam with her. I have a lovely copy of Leap Back. I cut Donna totally out of it.

blue enigma 10-01-2013 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakkanne (Post 60468)
------------
Saturday, October 5, 2013
By: Suzanne Smiley
Written: August 19, 1995
Revised: July 3, 2013

Creak…Creak…Creak…
Sam Beckett leaned back in the rustic porch swing of his suburban home in Rio Rancho, New Mexico. The swing was old, but then so was he. Two months ago had been his sixtieth birthday.
A small wind picked up, scattering leaves around the front lawn, rustling his greying hair, which had once been brown.
It felt good, sitting on the porch, observing the neighborhood on such a cool autumn afternoon. Actually, it just felt good to be himself, to be home. It had been ten years since he’d Leaped home for good and eighteen years since he had first stepped into the accelerator, sending his secure world into oblivion...
That day, ten years ago, was August 8, 2003, the day he turned fifty. So what? Now he was sixty. After spending so many years trapped in the past, Sam had promised himself he wouldn’t reminisce too much about his own. And yet here he was, doing that exact thing.
The wind blew again, a little more harshly and a little more cold. Sam frowned and zipped his jacket up further, sliding his time weathered hands into his pockets, shivering a bit.
Well, he didn’t feel sixty. That much he could say. Of course, eight years had been lacerated from his life. Although, Sam knew he had accomplished more in those eight years that he had in these past ten.
That bothered him. He didn’t want to spend the last twenty or thirty years of his life rotting away. Sam hated to admit it, but he missed Leaping. He actually missed Leaping. He didn’t miss being away from his family and wondering if he would ever come home, but he missed the helping people part, the satisfaction he derived from a job well done... it just wasn’t the same as it used to be. Nothing ever was.
Sam frowned. Taking his hands out of his pockets, he reached for his guitar, which was propped up between its case and the porch railing.
“Damn the cold,” he mumbled as he began to strum a few chords. At first disorganized, but gradually the rhythm became more clear and focused. Sam began to sing softly, “Imagine there’s no heaven…”
Suddenly it was November 26, 1969, Thanksgiving Day. It was cool, like now. His little sister, Katie, was sitting on the porch swing next to him, on the family farm in Elk Ridge, Indiana, looking up at him expectantly.
“And John,” she’d said. “What’s John gonna do? He’s my favorite!” she added with a giggle.
Sam never told her, but he did sing her that song. “It’s easy if you try…”
It was a touching scene between him and his sister, but it had not ended well. Katie had run to their mother, crying. She was afraid that if Sam knew the future, then he must be telling the truth about Tom dying in Vietnam.
Sam stopped playing. Tom didn’t die in Vietnam. That was because in one of his Leaps, Sam had saved his brother. So, Tom Beckett didn’t die.
Tom was still living in Indiana with his wife, Angie. He’d had two kids and three grandkids because of his little brother.
It really messes with your mind...
------------

This is a really lovely piece of writing, wakkanne, and you have a nice handle on Sam's character. I look forward to reading your series once you're ready to post them. :)

Sam Beckett Fan 10-02-2013 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samnal (Post 60518)
Debra did not write a character who would want to sacrifice Al for her having Sam with her.

When in hysterics one can tend to speak impulsively words or implications that they don't intend. Certainly in her rational mind Donna wouldn't dare allow Al to be killed. She ended up sending Sam on his way didn't she? She barely pursued the argument.

Think about it, she waited more patiently than anyone is expected to for a husband whom has even less of a way back to her than Al did to Beth from Vietnam.
Her prayers are answered and he returns only to once again end up bound for the place which promises no return less than 24 hours later. Wouldn't that upset you?

To be fair Sam as well was selfish in ensuring she married him since he in fact justified the fear of abandonment which tore her from him in the initial timeline.
I'd say it's Donna who is the selfless (or I suppose you could say stupid) spouse to wait so patiently for a husband who roams through time with no memory of her and being quite intament with several other woman but knows that he is fulfilling a special and great purpose by doing do.

Lightning McQueenie 10-02-2013 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60517)
I'm afraid I'm still lost, they retrieved Alia after every leap.


There is not a single piece of evidence to support this. In fact, Zoe goads Alia to kill Sam in Deliver Us From Evil because "this could be the leap that sends you home, Alia... Home". It's pretty obvious that Alia was in fact trapped in time like Sam was. Yes Lothos could control when the leapers leap, and even where to, but he was NOT able to bring them home (unless the leaper completes their first mission within 48 hours).

blue enigma 10-02-2013 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60523)
To be fair Sam as well was selfish in ensuring she married him since he in fact justified the fear of abandonment which tore her from him in the initial timeline.

I'd say it's Donna who is the selfless (or I suppose you could say stupid) spouse to wait so patiently for a husband who roams through time with no memory of her and being quite intament with several other woman but knows that he is fulfilling a special and great purpose by doing do.

Yeah, this is the way I see it.

I really do hate this story arc in case I haven't made that entirely obvious already, lol. Though it's completely understandable it's also an extremely selfish move on Sam's part. It's unrealistic that one meeting with her father would change her and alleviate her fears so drastically, and then of course Sam himself turns around and brings them right to the surface again.

Also I think both writers could have done a better job with Donna as a character. She's pretty two-dimensional in both episodes, and is really just there as a device for creating extra angst for Sam in The Leap Back [and he doesn't even seem particularly upset that he has to leave her again -- which to be fair is probably because the episode is so rushed]. I really admire writers like Melanie Rawn in Knights of the Morningstar and Sandy Hall, Sharon Wisdom and Michelle Agnew in Hope and Glory (Oh Boy IV) who were able to flesh out her character so beautifully with so little to go on.

Sam Beckett Fan 10-02-2013 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Mcqueenie
In fact, Zoe goads Alia to kill Sam in Deliver Us From Evil because "this could be the leap that sends you home, Alia... Home".

Actually this is an inconsistency that has me stumped which I also explain in the Evil Leapers thread. Which brings me to this.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie
There is not a single piece of evidence to support this.

There are in fact several in the second two episodes.
Return of the Evil Leaper.
The scene in Alia's dorm after they discover Sam's presence in the leap.
"Lothos isn't pleased with your prior work concerning Dr. Beckett."
"Then why did he send me here?"


Alia in the next scene tells Sam that they tortured her, thus she was returned somewhere which is involved with her project.

Then at the end while Sam is holding on to her but is waiting for those last few percentile to trigger his leap out, Zoey growls:
"Lothos, pull Alia out!"

A few moments prior while still in the car, Sam is trying to explain leaping Alia with him to Al.
"if I don't Zoey will tell Lothos and he'll leap her out, I'll lose her forever."
He can't possibly know of course but he too seemed to take the hint from her having been tortured.

Revenge; after Alia's leap out to her freedom:
"She leaped!"
"She didn't leap back!"


Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Enigma
I really admire writers like Melanie Rawn in Knights of the Morningstar and Sandy Hall, Sharon Wisdom and Michelle Agnew in Hope and Glory (Oh Boy IV) who were able to flesh out her character so beautifully with so little to go on.

Melanie Rawn is quite possibly the best of the official novel authors with Carol Davis (w/Esther D. Reese) who wrote Mirror's Edge right along side. Mirror's Edge beautifully explores through Tom the question of how in the right it is for Sam not to remember Donna and how he'd abandoned her as well as his regrets for not being a better husband to her. This novel portrays Donna in exactly the way Scott imagines her character.
I wonder if Scott or Dean have read any of the books.

Now Hope and Glory I have not heard of. What is this?

blue enigma 10-02-2013 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60527)
Melanie Rawn is quite possibly the best of the official novel authors with Carol Davis (w/Esther D. Reese) who wrote Mirror's Edge right along side. Mirror's Edge beautifully explores through Tom the question of how in the right it is for Sam not to remember Donna and how he'd abandoned her as well as his regrets for not being a better husband to her. This novel portrays Donna in exactly the way Scott imagines her character.
I wonder if Scott or Dean have read any of the books.

Now Hope and Glory I have not heard of. What is this?

Yes, you had mentioned that Carol fleshed out Donna's character very well. I haven't read either of her novels yet.

I really loved L. Elizabeth Storm's novels. Pulitzer is my favorite so far, and Foreknowledge by Chris DeFilippis is a close second.

Hope and Glory is the fanzine Oh Boy IV. A lot of the fanzines are a collection of stories, but a few of them are novels. Oh Boy IV is a novel called Hope and Glory. It's huge. 2 volumes, over 400 pages. It's a prequel, but in the changed timeline where Sam has already made changes like saving his brother, Donna marrying him, then continues with Sam stepping into the accelerator and leaping, and then his coming home. It's long but very very good. It was written before the series ended so it ignores 'Mirror Image' and pretty much most of Season 5. I was able to borrow this one from someone so I didn't need to purchase it. Because it's so large it's more expensive.

Sam Beckett Fan 10-02-2013 04:19 PM

My best friend read ForeKnowledge and said it was good. The idea of it sounds pretty intriguing. Perhaps I will give it a try but at the moment I have three other novels on their way to me via Amazon. Pulitzer and Obsessions which I have already read (borrowed the first time) but really enjoy and one I have not, Double or Nothing.

Honor and Glory sounds very interesting, how can I get a copy of this fanzine?

blue enigma 10-02-2013 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60530)
Honor and Glory sounds very interesting, how can I get a copy of this fanzine?

I'm not sure if it's available on eBay anymore but you could try there. It might be cheaper. Agent with Style has it but it's expensive. Here's the link to their website: http://www.agentwithstyle.com/. I bought a couple of the smaller, cheaper zines from them.

Sam Beckett Fan 10-02-2013 05:03 PM

Wonderful thank you. :)
Correction; I am now waiting for two novels in the mail. They only shipped two days ago but Double or Nothing has already arrived. Impressive.

samnal 10-02-2013 05:49 PM

[quote=Sam Beckett Fan;60523]When in hysterics one can tend to speak impulsively words or implications that they don't intend. Certainly in her rational mind Donna wouldn't dare allow Al to be killed. She ended up sending Sam on his way didn't she? She barely pursued the argument.
I respect what you say. A person who is out of her mind - well, she wants to keep Sam home. With her. When she said, "I don't care," she literally tossed Sam's concern about Al in his face and ended any sane thought I had about the character. And I loved your story, it was very very good. I have quite a bit of stuff up on fanfiction.net and archiveofourown which I'm proud of - you are a unique writer and I thank God we are still alive as a fandom. If anyone could convince me to accept a Donna Ellissee or whatever in Sam's life, I'm sure you guys can. She is not in my stories. If you know my name as a writer then you know who I have Sam with and that is always my be all and end all.

samnal 10-02-2013 05:52 PM

Zines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60534)
Wonderful thank you. :)
Correction; I am now waiting for two novels in the mail. They only shipped two days ago but Double or Nothing has already arrived. Impressive.

Are these new zines or old zines/ I would be interested in buying them -- can you privately email me the details? buster1033@aol.com

Lightning McQueenie 10-02-2013 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60527)
Actually this is an inconsistency that has me stumped which I also explain in the Evil Leapers thread. Which brings me to this.


There are in fact several in the second two episodes.
Return of the Evil Leaper.
The scene in Alia's dorm after they discover Sam's presence in the leap.
"Lothos isn't pleased with your prior work concerning Dr. Beckett."
"Then why did he send me here?"


Alia in the next scene tells Sam that they tortured her, thus she was returned somewhere which is involved with her project.

Then at the end while Sam is holding on to her but is waiting for those last few percentile to trigger his leap out, Zoey growls:
"Lothos, pull Alia out!"

A few moments prior while still in the car, Sam is trying to explain leaping Alia with him to Al.
"if I don't Zoey will tell Lothos and he'll leap her out, I'll lose her forever."
He can't possibly know of course but he too seemed to take the hint from her having been tortured.

Revenge; after Alia's leap out to her freedom:
"She leaped!"
"She didn't leap back!"

"Why did he send me here?"

Lothos can control when a leap occurs and can also control where to, but can NOT leap them home if they have been gone for too long, as Alia was.

If Alia was tortured, it was by Lothos putting her in a place and point in time where she could be tortured. For example, she could have been leapt into someone being held hostage and tortured by terrorists - that easily could be considered "worse than death".

"Lothos, pull Alia out."
Like I said, Lothos can control when a leaper leaps, and can put them where he wants, he just can't bring her home.

"If Zoe finds out she'll tell Lothos and he'll leap her out and I'll lose her forever"
Sam realises that Lothos has enough control to leap her away from him (not necessarily back to their project) and also realises that his encounter with her was just the "random event theory - a fantastic stroke of luck", so if Lothos leaps her away the chances of their crossing paths again would be slim to none.

"She didn't leap back"
Zoe obviously realised that her shooting Alia/Angel had no effect, she and Thames realised Alia must have leapt - let's remember that Zoe and Alia had NOT touched, so there's a good chance that they would only be seeing each other's hosts' auras (i.e. Zoe seeing Alia as Angel and Alia seeing Zoe as Myers) and so would not actually see the leap effect. When they realised Alia had leapt, they weren't sure if she'd just been replaced by the real Angel, or just pulled out long enough for the blank aura to absorb the bullet and have her return. So Zoe saying "She didn't leap back" was really her confirming with Thames that Alia didn't leap back into Angel.

Sam Beckett Fan 10-02-2013 09:49 PM

[quote=samnal;60536]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60523)
When in hysterics one can tend to speak impulsively words or implications that they don't intend. Certainly in her rational mind Donna wouldn't dare allow Al to be killed. She ended up sending Sam on his way didn't she? She barely pursued the argument.
I respect what you say. A person who is out of her mind - well, she wants to keep Sam home. With her. When she said, "I don't care," she literally tossed Sam's concern about Al in his face and ended any sane thought I had about the character. And I loved your story, it was very very good. I have quite a bit of stuff up on fanfiction.net and archiveofourown which I'm proud of - you are a unique writer and I thank God we are still alive as a fandom. If anyone could convince me to accept a Donna Ellissee or whatever in Sam's life, I'm sure you guys can. She is not in my stories. If you know my name as a writer then you know who I have Sam with and that is always my be all and end all.

Don't worry there is nothing wrong with disliking Donna and your point in valid about the 'I don't care" line, that can not be explained by my theory and was quite over the top. If I could quantum leap back to when the episode's script was written I would have that line removed.

Interestingly I have noticed that though there is little connection between the two arcs, those who are fans of Trilogy seem to not be so much of Donna. I am not as certain of the vise versa but I myself qualify under it. Though as I have said many times I am also a fan of Sam with Tamlyn.
Had they not reintroduced Donna in The Leap Back but instead had Tamlyn end up on the project hoping beyond hope that her psychic abilities can somehow bring home the man she fell in love with I would honestly be equally as satisfied and wouldn't have missed Donna.

What of my stories have you read?
Honestly it's been so long I can only remember a couple of the ones I posted here and thinking back on them they sound ridiculous. XD

I am not familiar with your writing, do tell, who do you have Sam with?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samnal
Are these new zines or old zines/ I would be interested in buying them -- can you privately email me the details? buster1033@aol.com

The zines are new to me as they are to you. Blue Enigma will know more. If you are meaning the novels which are different I get them on Amazon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie
So Zoe saying "She didn't leap back" was really her confirming with Thames that Alia didn't leap back into Angel.

Actually it was Thames' line but fair enough explanation all the same.

Donofrio_QLTD 10-03-2013 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60541)
What of my stories have you read?
Honestly it's been so long I can only remember a couple of the ones I posted here and thinking back on them they sound ridiculous. XD

On a bit of an off-topic note, boy, do I know the feeling! I can't help but laugh at some of the stories I wrote when I was 17 or so. When I was about 14 I wrote a couple of QL stories, but they were more like quick sketches or something. I re-read one of them the other day and I couldn't help thinking "oh, boy... well, yeah, sure...", haha!! Maybe I'll post them someday here just for the heck of it.

blue enigma 10-03-2013 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60541)
Don't worry there is nothing wrong with disliking Donna and your point in valid about the 'I don't care" line, that can not be explained by my theory and was quite over the top. If I could quantum leap back to when the episode's script was written I would have that line removed.

Yeah, I think that part was DPB inserting his own sentiments into the script.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 60541)
The zines are new to me as they are to you. Blue Enigma will know more. If you are meaning the novels which are different I get them on Amazon.

The zines are from the 1990s, but are still available on that site that I linked as well as eBay in some cases. As far as I know there aren't any new ones. Maybe someone else is aware of new stuff.

Lightning McQueenie 10-03-2013 10:53 AM

Something that's intrigued me is the thought that Sam was meant to leap into the future in the Season 6 premiere had the show continued. But that would mean Sam wouldn't have any help at all from the project, as it would not have happened yet. Something hit me today, if Sam was to leap into the future, what would probably happen is a complete role reversal. Sam could observe what is happening in the time that he's in, and (provided it's not too distant in the future), he could somehow contact the project so that THEY can change what is to be changed (or in the case of the future, prevented)...

Sam Beckett Fan 10-03-2013 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donofrio_QLTD
On a bit of an off-topic note, boy, do I know the feeling! I can't help but laugh at some of the stories I wrote when I was 17 or so. When I was about 14 I wrote a couple of QL stories, but they were more like quick sketches or something. I re-read one of them the other day and I couldn't help thinking "oh, boy... well, yeah, sure...", haha!! Maybe I'll post them someday here just for the heck of it.

Oh I can't stand most of my past writing from about 3 years ago and before. The Quantum Leap fanfiction I am working on now, 'Go Figure', it was originally titled 'Thin Ice' and I had begun it a few years ago, also only managing to get to the "Oh Boy" and re-reading it, wow was it ever crapola! I wanna know what the hell I was sniffing back then! XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Queenie
But that would mean Sam wouldn't have any help at all from the project, as it would not have happened yet.

That and as I heard it the project had not managed to re-establish contact with him after Al's hunch luck in Mirror Image. Thus supposedly he's continuing to leap from that point forward as himself.

As for Sam being in the future, it would be for the audience however in Sam's case it's more that limit of his lifetime is merely expanding. Since his present time would progress from 1999 to 2000 then 2001, 2002 etc.
My best friend uses this in her brilliant fanfic 'One Final Leap'. Sam in his 80's completes a last leap which is set somewhere in the early 2000's, it's been a while since I read it but it might have been the same year Al dies which is 2020. After this he is leaped home, the year being 2040.
(Sadly after being reunited with his beloved Donna, meets his and Al's children and grandchildren and makes love to Donna one more time Sam passes away in his sleep and is reunited with Al in the ghostly plain. That is actually what the title is referring to.)
She let me write the ending for her and I have actually begun re-writing it. XD


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:17 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2000 - 2016 Al's Place Quantum Leap Fan Site | 4.8.15.16.23.42