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-   -   Body or Soul? (http://quantumleap-alsplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3877)

Sam Beckett Fan 07-03-2007 05:12 AM

Body or Soul?
 
A post that Joy(TinaAlsGirl) posted in the Favorite novel thread made me wonder what others have to say on this subject so I decided to ask. Which idea do you like more The concept of Sam's Soul leaping which is discussed in most of the novels or the concept of his body leaping which the actual show implys?
****
Me? I prefer the idea of Sam's body leaping. Because if it's just his soul than techniqually the host is still there just not spiritually meaning Sam is not actully still Sam his mind just is; and the point of the show is that Sam is supposed to always still be Sam. So saying that his soul is leaping kind of ruins the concept of the show I think. Plus I don't like how that makes it harder to convince the committe that Sam really did leap which is one concept in Ashley Mcconnell's Random Measures that was written well.

HologramIAm 07-03-2007 11:34 AM

Gee, I NEVER thought it was his body until Mirror Image :hair . It was always "the essence of Sam" Leaping, thus he traded bodies with those who would end up in the Waiting Room. This is why he sees the Leapee in the mirror, right? Did I miss something? Wasn't it always this way? Since when was his body ever leaving the Waiting Room for a Leap? His physical features stayed in tact for our benefit, I think, but his body was always in the Waiting Room. Now you all have confused me. Did I Slide to an alternate Earth here? :banghead In order for the Leapeee to be interrogated, they needed a body to inhabit. I'm going to the zoo, lol. Bye 'til tonight, ya'll.

JuliaM 07-03-2007 03:27 PM

I've always accepted what the show seemed to establish the most - that Sam is leaping body, mind and spirt and that what the people around him sees is an "aura" of the person he's leaped into. It's the only explanation that would then fit with Sam still having his eyesight in "Blind Faith" and his legs in "No Where to Run" and be able to father a child with his DNA in "For Your Love".

It's also pretty much stated as it being Sam's complete being leaping in "8 1/2 Months".

Sam Beckett Fan 07-03-2007 04:00 PM

Yeah I am wit you there Julia. HologramIAm, the way Sam's body can leap yet still have the reflection of his host is by having their aura around him which means their essence if you will. The show seems to support his enture being going because as Julia stated its the only way he can retian his eyesight, legs and give his sperm in sexual intercourse throughout the series.

HologramIAm 07-03-2007 06:33 PM

Yeah, I understand it. I just don't really like it because they changed their minds how things worked from one show to another sometimes... like Mr. B said (or to the effect): "I let the fans figure it out." Whatever, huh? Simple, plain English often did escape this show, but nonetheless I LOVE IT, body, mind, soul or spirit :hurray:

QL Nut 07-03-2007 07:02 PM

This topic yet again? It's his body!

Snish 07-03-2007 07:17 PM

The question was which idea we liked better. I also prefer the idea that Sam's body travels through time, not just his mind. It would be less compelling if it was only his mind. It would seem like it shouldn't be so hard to get him back, or maybe time travel is just a mental illness!

It also makes the concept quite a bit more complicated if his body travels as well, yet looks to everyone around him like the other person's body. And I like that complicated concept. It boggles my brain.

QL Nut 07-03-2007 11:06 PM

Oh, let me clarify more: I prefer the idea that it's his body as the show implies. The mind idea is interesting in and of itself, but having Sam's physical body there makes the show more interesting. Why? Well, if it wasn't his body then Sam wouldn't have been able to father his child, for one. And episodes like "8½ Months" wouldn't be as humorous. And I really can't come up with any more reasons beyond that right now, but I guess it's more psychologically satisfying for me to know that when the first leap occurred, Sam's entire body traveled through time, not just his mind. And later in the series, the concept of mind-merging occurred anyway, so we did get the best of both worlds.

Sam Beckett Fan 07-03-2007 11:16 PM

Sorry for the confusion earlier Chris but yeah this a different version of the topic you are thinking of. The body leaping is the canon information so there is no question of which one is correct. I was asking which idea you prefer because the novels oppose the show and discuss the soul.

QL Nut 07-05-2007 01:08 AM

Don't worry about it. That was my mistake.

cookiemom6067 07-05-2007 10:37 AM

The only time I have to REALLY suspend disbelief about his body leaping is at the end of 8 1/2 months. There are minor questions (like how does he fit into everyone's clothes), but in 8 1/2 months:

1. Exactly WHERE is he feeling Billie Jean's contractions? He has no Uterus.
2. "The baby has disappeared from Billie Jean's womb" - uh - OK.
3. Exactly what progress can he make by pushing? Talk about "no exit!"

I much prefer the concept of his body leaping because of scenes like Dr Ruth, when he beats up the bad guy, and Nowhere to Run, when he stands up.

HologramIAm 07-05-2007 03:01 PM

Hmm. Yeah, confusing as hell. But I wanted to comment on the clothes issue, since Sam & Al touched on this in the comic, Quantum Leap #12... and if you don't think these count as part of the continuum, go ahead and click to somewhere else:

The gist of this issue is that Sam Leaps into a LAST CHANCE GAS joint out in the middle of nowhere into "Lucky," an old man who prefers to be left alone. He doesn't like people whatsoever and would not lift a finger to help you unless it was to pump gas you intend to pay for. Turns out, Sam's there because Norma Jean Baker stops in about out of gas and lost, but she has no money to pay for it because she left the studio without her purse. In the original history, the old man sent her on her way without the gas and no directions: no maps; Lucky cannot read! She runs out of gas in the desert. No more Marylin, because Al thinks even if she would have lived and made it out of the desert, she would have been fired from her current movie, possibly ending her career. This is before she is really well known, too. Without Sam, she would have remained a bit player only! Sam single-handedly saves the Sexual Revolution! This was released about the same time as "Goodbye Norma Jean." Now that the tangent is over...

Before all that at the beginning of the book, Sam is wondering why the boots he is wearing are too tight. Here, I'll let Sam & Al explain from one of my preview scans from the book itself:

And there you have it :D

Sam Beckett Fan 07-05-2007 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiemom6067
The only time I have to REALLY suspend disbelief about his body leaping is at the end of 8 1/2 months. There are minor questions (like how does he fit into everyone's clothes), but in 8 1/2 months:

1. Exactly WHERE is he feeling Billie Jean's contractions? He has no Uterus.
2. "The baby has disappeared from Billie Jean's womb" - uh - OK.
3. Exactly what progress can he make by pushing? Talk about "no exit!"

I much prefer the concept of his body leaping because of scenes like Dr Ruth, when he beats up the bad guy, and Nowhere to Run, when he stands up.

I believe that Sam's aura waves thingys are connected with Billy Jeans in an unusual way so that he can feel the pregnacy. The third thing you pointed out however contradicts itself because if its a soul exhange than how does she have a womb from the baby to disappear from since she would be in a man's body?

LadyKayoss 07-05-2007 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan
I believe that Sam's aura waves thingys are connected with Billy Jeans in an unusual way so that he can feel the pregnacy. The third thing you pointed out however contradicts itself because if its a soul exhange than how does she have a womb from the baby to disappear from since she would be in a man's body?

*blinks* Good point. We were all so focused on Sam, no one really thought about things from Billie Jean's side. And I agree with the 'connection' with Billie Jean - after all, it's something Sam has done in later seasons, and it is kinda necessary, otherwise there's no way that Sam could convincingly pull off being a pregnant girl! :lol

But, anyway, in answer to the main question posed, I prefer the body leaping theory. It's what I always assumed anyway, from the handful of episodes I initially saw, and it just appeals to me.

And, on a side note, thanks HologramIAm for sharing the comic pages. I have the whole set, but mine are in storage, and I really miss them. *sigh* If only I could draw; I'd do fan-produced comics myself.

Sam Beckett Fan 07-05-2007 07:38 PM

Yeah I can not draw to save my soul...or Sams lol.
If I could I would have tons of Sam and Al drawings to share on here and my Divantart.

Snish 07-05-2007 08:55 PM

HologramIAm, thanks for posting that! The comic looks very well done (and I love Al's gunslinger outfit). My own theory is that it's Sam's molecular structure that's unstable, not that of the clothes. But I agree that "there's a whole lot about your quantum leaping that we still don't understand."

Sam Beckett Fan 07-05-2007 09:41 PM

Yeah I agree it doesn't make sense that the mulecular structor of the clothes would be come unstable. His body's mulecular structure becoming unstable is more likely.

Al The Observer 07-06-2007 04:52 AM

Quote:

"Clothes made of unstable molecules?" "Maybe."

:\

"Gooshie reads too many comic books." "Probably."
:roflmao:

cookiemom6067 07-06-2007 10:12 AM

that is a really great looking comic - thanks for sharing it.

Mostly, I just "que sera" most of the stuff that my logic center questions when it comes to QL. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief - my husband (a scientist and very logical/skeptical fellow) teases me unmercifully when something really jars him.

isz 07-06-2007 05:13 PM

Today i show "Catch a falling star",and Sam said in his own words -that every time he leaps it's his heart andhis soul so maybe it really his heart and soul and mind,but not his body...

Sam Beckett Fan 07-06-2007 10:14 PM

No he didn't say that, Al trys to remind Sam that Nicole had spent the previous night with Ray Hutten to which Sam replies:
"I may have looked like Ray Hutten but she was with me, my heart and my soul!"
In that respect I think he meant that she thought he was Ray but he knows he is Sam not Ray and that's what matters and is important to him.

HologramIAm 07-06-2007 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snish
HologramIAm, thanks for posting that! The comic looks very well done (and I love Al's gunslinger outfit). My own theory is that it's Sam's molecular structure that's unstable, not that of the clothes. But I agree that "there's a whole lot about your quantum leaping that we still don't understand."

Ya'll are very welcome... podnuhs. A quick scan of the Innovation Comic was all it was, and since my name is in this issue, I have the whole book memorized! I remembered it right away when the clothes were brought up. :hurray:

Avilos 02-25-2017 04:50 AM

For me the biggest problem with it only being Sam's mind/spirit leaping is that does not all fit how Scott Bakula acted in the series. It has to be his whole physical body leaping. Otherwise why would it be so awkward for him to wear women's shoes or clothes? This is something that is way over thought. From the Pilot it's really obvious it's his body. THe fact that he sees a mirror image that is not his own! If he was in a different body he would look down at himself and see the difference. ALso in the Pilot Al says if Tom Stratton stays living in the future he would be the oldest man alive. Later when Sam first Leaps into a woman and SAm was surprised Al saw him as a woman was proof positive Sam's in his own body. If it was just his mind Sam would know everyone sees him as a woman even Al.

Sure the body leaping raises questions. But it's better than destroying a core element of the whole. Which is we are experiencing Sam's Leaps by watching him physically in those situations. Scott would have had to play the part completely different. It would have robbed the show of a lot of the drama and humor if it's was just his mind. That would have made it much easier for him to adjust to each Leap.

Moviefan2k4 02-26-2017 12:33 AM

If it wasn't Sam's own body, he'd never be able to accomplish things we saw in different episodes. For example, he "walked on air" after Leaping into a military veteran amputee. And even though Sam felt the birth pains of Billie Jean Crockett (likely due to the mental connection explained in later episodes), his own body couldn't physically deliver a baby...which is why he Leaped at the last moment.

Avilos 02-26-2017 10:35 AM

You are right of course. In the later seasons there was no ambiguity at all that it was his body Leaping. My point was that the debate usually involves the early seasons and their impressions when those first aired. But the truth is even than if you were playing close attention it's clear there were more clues it was his body leaping in the first episode.


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