Thread: 222 M.I.A.
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Old 11-16-2013, 01:23 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by blue enigma
The statement is still hypocritical though, regardless of whether Sam had other reasons to protest changing Al's life or whether he thought Beth and Dirk were meant to be. Whenever Sam wanted to change something for himself he said 'screw the rules' but here he turned around and threw those same rules in Al's face.

I'm not suggesting that Al wasn't in the wrong. In fact I said that Sam was right to call him out on the fact that he wasn't honest with him about who Beth was. Al let his own personal issues get in the way of accomplishing the mission and it could've cost at least one person their life. And I'm not convinced that Sam was supposed to fix Al and Beth, at least at this point. Sam was still being a hypocrite as soon as those words were out of his mouth.
My apologies for misleading, I was not arguing the hypocrisy. Nothing changes the fact that it was. What I intended to express was that that whether or not Sam was willing didn't matter. The way Al conducted it was most of the reason if not THE reason it didn't work.

Originally Posted by blue enigma
Well, we don't actually know the circumstances of Sam's first leap in the changed timeline where he was married to Donna. We do know from 'The Leap Back' that the retrieval program didn't work when Sam leaped -- whether they knew it didn't work before he leaped or discovered it afterward is impossible to say. We also know from 'Genesis' that at least in the first timeline Sam did leap prematurely, knowing the project wasn't ready yet. We don't know whether that was the case in the second timeline. And maybe he discussed the decision with Donna first. Maybe he didn't. Judging by the way he behaved to her in 'The Leap Back' once he'd decided to leap to save Al -- and again, this is in big part a flaw of too much being packed into just one episode -- it wouldn't surprise me if Sam just rushed headlong and didn't consult with her about it. In 'The Leap Back' when he was getting ready to leap again he didn't even say a word to her until she asked "Sam, what are you doing?" Granted he was rushing to save Al and time was limited, but still -- he really seemed like he was brushing her off [and again, I think this is an unfortunate effect of the rushedness of the episode].
When you're right you're right.
All completely valid points.

Originally Posted by blue engima
Also, as far as we know at the end of the last episode that second abandonment is permanent and by Sam's choice.
Personally I don't want to buy this, that Sam never returned home. It's not just about Donna. He has a mother a sister and by his own actions a brother and from them nieces and nephews. He has a staff who have basically given their lives to finding a way to bring him home. Would he truly just throw that away? Spit in the face of all those staff members (so to speak)?
There is no reason at that point why he couldn't have returned between leaps.
Such a bogus ending that as Donna does you leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

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