I Need Copyright Approval...

My suggestions are not in the form of a scam, just to make that clear. Why do you think that so many things that are 'knock offs' get into the marketplace? It's obvious what they are trying to portray.

During my coursework for my M.B.A. I had to take classes on Intellectual Property (IP). Part of the whole ball of wax is the concept of how close to something can another thing be and not cross IP lines. As I said, the handlink would not be able to be an exact replica. If it was, then it would certainly be an IP violation. If it's too close then a court might find that closeness to be a IP violation. The same with the name. If there is ANY absolute association by name (i.e. Imaging Chamber handlink, gummy bear handlink,) then a court would likely find the item in IP violation. Finally no association with QL can be made in advertising the item (e.g. character names, show names, logos, or anything else.) If it was advertised with a QL focus, then the again, a court could find an IP violoation. All of these things would make advertising and selling a little tricky to the demographic it is designed for, but there you go.

Even with doing all of this stuff, TPTB who hold the IP for the device could STILL come after someone and probably would if the person was making significant money on the item. A lawsuit doesn't have to be airtight to be filed. And sometimes, the cost of fighting something that you know the underdog will win is just not worth it. So, no matter what, even this type of activity (which again is NOT a scam, it's a tried and true marketing technique) can be problematic for the seller.

As to the T'Shirt Idea, again, if the collectibles are exact duplicates, that in itself is an IP violation,whether the collectible is being 'given away' or not. Everytime someone makes an exact duplicate of something protected by IP laws (even for personal use) by definition they are stepping on those same IP laws whether someone is making money or not. Now...most companies do not swoop down on the unsuspecting fan who made them. Paramount, for instance, has realized that by allowing Trek fandom to thrive within reason, it actually generates continued revenue for them. So, an occasional one on one sale is usally going to go under the radar of the company holding the IP rights. However, if they get wind of it, again, they could request the person to 'cease and desist' selling the product or face a lawsuit.

So...I'm really sorry that this might be a sucky situation but that's the reality of it. It's part of the reason that few people go this route and why so little is out there.
 
feldon30 said:
I really don't like the word "scam" used above.

If Bellisario owned QL then it would be one thing, but Universal is a different story. My suggestion to NeuroMason is to make it a limited collectible type of thing. The T-shirt is a good idea. The most important thing is to protect yourself from litigation.

I have also thought of building my own handlink and gave up since I cannot source the materials and get them cut properly (despite having a friend in the business).

Paramount is a lot of things, but they were very wise in one regard. Anyone can make Star Trek-based videos including the original theme music, costume designs, etc. as long as they are not trying to make money. I don't know about props though.
I am sorry for using a word you disliked, but I stil believe the t-shirt idea is "the disliked word". No one is going to buy a t-shirt for $400 or something like that. And it IS techniqually tricking people into buying the handlink by buying the shirt when the handlink is really what they are paying for. Again sorry but I am entitiled to my opinion. I like Helen's idea better of altering the appearence and passing it off as just a sci-fi controller.
 
I really don't think there should be any problem in selling one of these things on eBay, as long as you clearly state that it is a homemade replica. (And give a detailed and accurate description of everything it does and/or doesn't do, so that potential buyers will know exactly what they'll be getting.) It's also the most ideal place to sell something like that, I would think. There have been other replica handlinks sold on eBay before, and to the best of my knowledge none of the sellers had a problem with copyrights.
 
Ip

Even a 'homemade replica' is, by definition, a IP violation. Now...a one time (maybe twice) shot at selling one? Okay, TPTB probably wouldn't make a big deal over it. But starting a cottage industry selling them (like multiple times for serious money,) well, that's another kettle of fish altogether. It truly depends on that...how much and how often (although, there are some that go after ANY and ALL IP violations cause they have deep pockets and they know that a simple warning is generally all it takes.) Those that own the IP rights are NOT just going to let someone do that.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that there isn't a market for the product, just that it's good to know how far you're stepping in IP laws and what the potential consequences COULD be.
 
asearcher said:
Even a 'homemade replica' is, by definition, a IP violation. Now...a one time (maybe twice) shot at selling one? Okay, TPTB probably wouldn't make a big deal over it. But starting a cottage industry selling them (like multiple times for serious money,) well, that's another kettle of fish altogether. It truly depends on that...how much and how often (although, there are some that go after ANY and ALL IP violations cause they have deep pockets and they know that a simple warning is generally all it takes.) Those that own the IP rights are NOT just going to let someone do that.

In regards to the amount of these things being sold, to the best of my knowledge, over the years there's really only been a handful of handlink replicas sold on eBay (or any other high profile site, which does not include private sellers), so the handlink would seem to fit right into this categeory, Helen. This is not to mention the fact that out of this handful of sales (and of course I could be wrong, but I even feel confident enough to say there's been less than 20 replicas sold over the years [publically, that is]); and at least a few of them were actual props from the show, which sold for a couple of thousand dollars, if I remember correctly. So, while this situation isn't necessarily a one-time deal, I think it's still rare enough (at least in terms of profits) of a prop to sink below the radar, so to speak. Now, given NBC Universal's history, I'm not entirely sure they'd be bright enough (or care enough) to be one of those companies that would go after "any and all" violations. Again, of course I could be wrong as it's just my personal opinion, so please take it with a grain of salt.
 
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They are in violation if it in anyway referenced Quantum Leap. The simple fact is, Universal owns Quantum Leap and all that's associated with it. To use anything Quantum Leap related that in any way generates a profit (or not - ie fan fiction) is a violation of Intellectual Propery rights, plain and simple.

That Universal hasn't done anything in the past doesn't mean they wouldn't in the future. In the past it could have flown under their radar and they had no knowledge of it. The next time around, though, they could catch notice and issue a cease and desist order or file a lawsuit. No matter what anyone thinks, what it comes down to is that Quantum Leap is owned by Universal and they can choose to assert their rights in any way the law provides.
 
I can pretty much guarantee you that Universal has or will see this thread. I have first-hand knowledge that they know of this site, have in some cases helped me a little, and have also given me limits when I asked.

Some of the stars do visit here on occasion - I know Deborah Pratt and others like to pop in from time to time.

While I don't think anyone will care if you make a handlink for someone, charging too much for it could be a bad thing for you. Just be careful.
 
jmoniz said:
To use anything Quantum Leap related that in any way generates a profit (or not - ie fan fiction) is a violation of Intellectual Propery rights, plain and simple.

But how can fanfiction be illegal with places like Fanfic.net out there?
 
Fan fiction technically violates Intellectual Property because it takes characters and situations that are owned by someone else and are then used, without permission, by another entity. Simply, it's copyrighted material that is being used without the consent of the copyright holder.

Most times the copyright holder will turn a blind eye to the existence of fanfiction. There are time when a "cease and desist" order will be given.

The simple fact exists that you cannot legally take something that someone else owns and do what you will with it - whether or not the intention is there to make a profit. The owner of those rights is legally protected and does have means available to them through the court system to put a stop to their property being used without their consent.
 
jmoniz said:
Fan fiction technically violates Intellectual Property because it takes characters and situations that are owned by someone else and are then used, without permission, by another entity. Simply, it's copyrighted material that is being used without the consent of the copyright holder.

Most times the copyright holder will turn a blind eye to the existence of fanfiction. There are time when a "cease and desist" order will be given.

The simple fact exists that you cannot legally take something that someone else owns and do what you will with it - whether or not the intention is there to make a profit. The owner of those rights is legally protected and does have means available to them through the court system to put a stop to their property being used without their consent.

OK I see what you mean, thanks for explaining.
 
jmoniz said:
Fan fiction technically violates Intellectual Property because it takes characters and situations that are owned by someone else and are then used, without permission, by another entity. Simply, it's copyrighted material that is being used without the consent of the copyright holder.

Most times the copyright holder will turn a blind eye to the existence of fanfiction. There are time when a "cease and desist" order will be given.

The simple fact exists that you cannot legally take something that someone else owns and do what you will with it - whether or not the intention is there to make a profit. The owner of those rights is legally protected and does have means available to them through the court system to put a stop to their property being used without their consent.

Doesn't this apply to The Virtual Seasons on this very site?
 
It applies to any fan fiction. Unless the copyright holder has granted permission for the use of its intellectual propery, the use of it is a copyright infringement. The only time that wouldn't be so is if something has passed into the public domain. It'll be many years, in fact decades, before the copyright on Quantum Leap would pass from Universal to the public domain and that's assuming that at some point in time Universal chooses not to renew their copyright.
 
jmoniz said:
Most times the copyright holder will turn a blind eye to the existence of fanfiction. There are time when a "cease and desist" order will be given.

I want to point out that I don't feel that I'm directing NBC Universal's attention to this as they have already been aware of this site and its contents for years. I guess this is just a case of NBCU choosing not to exercise their rights as holders of the copyright...
 
QL Nut said:
I guess this is just a case of NBCU choosing not to exercise their rights as holders of the copyright...

I think that's the case with every studio, and it may be leading to some confusion. Fan fiction is so readily available and so public that people think it must be legal. There seems to be an unwritten understanding that no one will bother the fans as long as they're not making any money from it. Those who publish zines are probably lucky to break even--and if it didn't stay that way, the studios could go after them.

So I guess the distinction is that if someone is selling a prop like a reproduction handlink for hundreds of dollars, it's more likely to attract attention because of the high price.
 
Sam Beckett Fan said:
I am sorry for using a word you disliked, but I stil believe the t-shirt idea is "the disliked word". No one is going to buy a t-shirt for $400 or something like that. And it IS techniqually tricking people into buying the handlink by buying the shirt when the handlink is really what they are paying for. Again sorry but I am entitiled to my opinion. I like Helen's idea better of altering the appearence and passing it off as just a sci-fi controller.

Unfortunately nobody will buy something if it looks too different from the real thing.

I'm trying to think of ways for him to make something which is in demand without getting sued back to the stone age. There would be no secret to the buyer that he or she is paying a price to get both items. If someone looks at the price and the explanation of what they are getting and still feel "ripped off" then I am not sure what to say to that.

Unfortunately there is no inexpensive way to make a handlink. Acrylic is EXPENSIVE. Tinted acrylic is even more expensive. Cutting it and polishing it is complicated. Gluing it together without it cracking or getting cloudy is a mess. Buying bright miniature LEDs is expensive. Installing them and making a circuit which also has sound capabilities requires soldering and electrical knowledge beyond mine. It sounds like it takes about 10 hours to make each one of these, maybe more.

The choices are A) Give up since Universal will never produce their own prop nor will they ever license one and B) Try to stay just this side of the law.

If I doubted for a second that he is doing this for his love of the show but instead for profit, then I would not be defending him and trying to help him.

Again this is just my opinion speaking as a very occasional poster here and one who has not contributed as much to the community as I wish I had.
 
The choices are A) Give up since Universal will never produce their own prop nor will they ever license one and B) Try to stay just this side of the law.

Hmm...

How about 'advertising' that he has made these replicas, at great personal expense, and rather than 'taking orders' for a fixed sum of cash, he just asks for a show of interest.

Then take the figures to Universal and say 'Hey, I have all these people interested in getting their hands on a replica QL handlink. I've done the market research for you - there's a market out there. How about you produce an official one now I've proved there is interest, or if you like, you can commission ME to do it for you since I've already produced a prototype!'

Well, one can always dream of happy endings... :p
 
Re: Intellectual Property

Don't get me wrong...I'd love to have him create really good replicas. It's not a question of that...rather what I've said is simply pointing out the reality cause the truth is, you step on IP laws, you take a risk at being 'sued back to the stone age.' That's just the reality of the situation.

I understand that things are expensive and that the love of the show is the motivation. Again...this is just trying to interject the reality. Would we LOVE to be able to do things we want to do? Sure. Is it always possible? Nope.

Regardless of HOW he does this (if he does this) it's his choice. He just needs to know what the potential consequences are before going down the whatever road he chooses.
 
feldon30 said:
Unfortunately nobody will buy something if it looks too different from the real thing.

I'm trying to think of ways for him to make something which is in demand without getting sued back to the stone age. There would be no secret to the buyer that he or she is paying a price to get both items. If someone looks at the price and the explanation of what they are getting and still feel "ripped off" then I am not sure what to say to that.

Unfortunately there is no inexpensive way to make a handlink. Acrylic is EXPENSIVE. Tinted acrylic is even more expensive. Cutting it and polishing it is complicated. Gluing it together without it cracking or getting cloudy is a mess. Buying bright miniature LEDs is expensive. Installing them and making a circuit which also has sound capabilities requires soldering and electrical knowledge beyond mine. It sounds like it takes about 10 hours to make each one of these, maybe more.

The choices are A) Give up since Universal will never produce their own prop nor will they ever license one and B) Try to stay just this side of the law.

If I doubted for a second that he is doing this for his love of the show but instead for profit, then I would not be defending him and trying to help him.

Again this is just my opinion speaking as a very occasional poster here and one who has not contributed as much to the community as I wish I had.
He doesn't have to make it look drastically different, definitely change the colors and maybe change the position of the area in which its curved to fit in your hand. Just something small. I don't really know for sure, it was Helen's idea first, I am just agreeing with it. Cuz universal will nevr crack, judging by the quality of the QL DVDs they are stubborn and care little about the fans of their shows.
 
Sam Beckett Fan said:
Cuz universal will nevr crack, judging by the quality of the QL DVDs they are stubborn and care little about the fans of their shows.

No, it's not a matter of Universal being stubborn and not caring. It's simply that Quantum Leap is Universal's property. They hold the copyright to it and thus it falls within their right to pursue any violation of a copyright. How would you feel if someone took something that you owned and then used it for their benefit without even asking you?

As far as Universal producing and selling handlinks - it just wouldn't be profitable for them. When you look at the demographic of people who would be buying it, it's a very small demographic making it a niche market. In order for Universal to gain any profit, they'd have to charge a very high price. That's not a matter of Universal not caring about fans - that's just simply business. Universal is neither an NFP (not for profit) or NPO (non-profit organization). They are in business to make money. Their responsibility first and foremost is to their stockholders to show a profit. Like it or not, that's just the way things are. There's a reason why it's called the Entertainment Business...that's because it is a business.
 
jmoniz said:
No, it's not a matter of Universal being stubborn and not caring. It's simply that Quantum Leap is Universal's property. They hold the copyright to it and thus it falls within their right to pursue any violation of a copyright. How would you feel if someone took something that you owned and then used it for their benefit without even asking you?

As far as Universal producing and selling handlinks - it just wouldn't be profitable for them. When you look at the demographic of people who would be buying it, it's a very small demographic making it a niche market. In order for Universal to gain any profit, they'd have to charge a very high price. That's not a matter of Universal not caring about fans - that's just simply business. Universal is neither an NFP (not for profit) or NPO (non-profit organization). They are in business to make money. Their responsibility first and foremost is to their stockholders to show a profit. Like it or not, that's just the way things are. There's a reason why it's called the Entertainment Business...that's because it is a business.

I meant that as in if he were to try to ask them.
 
well, im thinking of selling some comics i have... if somebody were to offer just the right ammount then... id probably just give them a handlink if they want one... ;) In all honesty, even if i could sale the handlinks even legally, its not that i would build them for "just profit" I mean, it Really does take alot of time to make these and make them look good!! I mean, This is coming from a person who doesnt even have the patience to put together a model car!!!! lol The reason i make my own handlinks is because i have a true love for the show and i have ALWAYS wanted a handlink since i was a young kid! Im 28 years old now... I took the time to figure out how to make myself one... i actually went through quite a few different attempts until if finally clicked... I Also Realized, "hey there might be other people out there who would like one as much as i did" and there are...
 
Sam Beckett Fan said:
He doesn't have to make it look drastically different, definitely change the colors and maybe change the position of the area in which its curved to fit in your hand.
Then there is no point in making it. There is no value in something that looks "off".

What would be lovely is if they granted him a one-time limited license to produce either a fixed number of them or produce and sell them for a fixed period of time.


Some of you may be familiar with Criterion Entertainment. Starting with Laserdisc and then moving into DVD, they acquired the rights to produce lavish LDs and DVDs with tons of special features, meticulously restored picture quality, excellent sound, and really every possible angle on a particular movie. For example Brazil, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, many of Akira Kurosawa's movies, etc.

At the time, there was no studio interest in doing high quality DVDs of these largely forgotten or cult audience movies. Studio accountants and marketing people had determined that these were low-demand properties. But Criterion is a small company and can make a profit on pushing only, say, 5,000 units.


I would love it if Universal would grant such a limited license which would neither hurt their profitability nor prevent them from exercising their full IP rights in the future. But I doubt it's going to happen. Still, they allow Brian to run this website and the convention so maybe Brian can clear the way for this, in return for a few handlink props to be auctioned off at the convention. :)
 
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Thats definietly an idea Morgan, NueroMason there really is no harm in just asking them. Its worth a try if you are really set on doing this.
 
Ok...just to make it clear...I even pointed out that going the route of "not exact copy" was not likely to appeal as much to the demographic he is looking to sell to. My whole point in all of this is that if one wants to reduce the risk of a lawsuit, my suggestions are ONE way to do it. I'm not suggesting it is likely to appeal to anyone. When looking at the potential for a lawsuit like this, it's like that early form of birth control pill...one aspirin held tightly between the knees is the best bet...in other words, you don't want to risk a lawsuit, then just don't do anything that could cause one.

Additionally, it doesn't sound like this would be a one or two time thing. In general, I doubt that the holders of the IP rights would be incredibly upset for such a limited 'sell' of a fanmade replica (although they would certainly be within their rights to sue someone for making money on their IP property.) However, the "I'll sell t-shirts for $400 and throw one in" is obviously a money making proposition and the holders of the IP rights are likely to be much more willing to nip that in the bud. After all, they look the other way for one such enterprise, it's a lot harder to close the barn for another one and then their IP property doesn't hold the same value.

As to the suggestion to call or write and ask for a limited waive of license or to pay a very small fee for the licensing, just realize, that WILL put the requester on their radar screens if Universal says 'NO,' and it would be hard to do ANYTHING after that without risking a lawsuit (even the knock off route...the phone call or letter could be used as evidence of 'intent.')

AGAIN...and I want this to be clear...I understand that the people who are willing to pay for these WANT an exact replica and not an 'almost there' knockoff. The questions in this thread, though, seemed to be about how to sell fanmade handlinks with the least risk. That's all I was pointing out. What people want to do with the information is up to them. I'm just saying that knowing how hard you are stepping on IP laws is generally a good thing. Then if one wants to take the risk, at least that person isn't surprised IF they get a letter from Weregonna, Sueyour, Assoff, and Howe (or whatever lawfirm Universal uses) who will just be protecting Universal's IP property rights which they have a right to protect, even if fans would like the reality to be something different.

That's all I'm pointing out...I'm not trying to be a 'wet blanket' JUST to be difficult.
 
You actually shouldn't have any problem just selling these. Even if you say it's a "Handlink Replica."

People have been selling handlinks for years now. I haven't heard of Universal sueing anyone. Furthermore, another show by Universal, Knight Rider, constantly has people selling custom made K.I.T.T cars. Tons of people do it. I haven't heard a single lawyer call any of these people.

If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know. But doing a search online for custom made KITTs will reveal a bunch of people who can transform like cars into KITT replicas. And they've been calling them "K.I.T.Ts" too. Not "That car from Knight Rider" or "A FUTURISTIC FAN MADE CAR OF SOME SORT."

Usually when you ask for permission like this, they'll usually say no. Unless you plan on MASS PRODUCING THEM and selling them to stores, you should be okay.
 
The first post in this thread was...

I need to Contact Don Bellasario and/or somebody i can talk to about making Handlink Replicas. I can make them all i want and even trade for them however, in order to recieve cash for them i feel it would be best to at least ask Bellasario for permission. If there is anybody who can help please do! The Handlink has always been one of my Favorite Props!! I know alot of you feel the same so please help me Bring the Handlink into the hands of other fans!!! Even if you don't know how i can get a hold of Bellasario or the production company, then please feel free to at least give me some advice on how to create these without stirring up any legal problems. Thanks everybody!!
It was pointed out quickly that Universal was the holder of the IP rights. The gist of the question was thus

how to create these without stirring up any legal problems.
The fact is that whether Universal decides to sue or not to sue, they have the RIGHT to sue. For the K.I.T.T.S cars, for Handlinks, and for anything else that they have IP rights to. They could sue people for writing fanfiction or making music vids (as could the artists whose songs are being used without their permission to be the music part of the vids) even though the creator is not making any money off of their creation (look at the legal warning on DVD's and CD's...it states that use without permission is strictly forbidden.) It may be fact that often times the IP rights holder choses not to go after the offender, but that does not negate the possibility that they COULD.

Several years ago (probably about 23 or so based on the age of my son,) you were able to get 'Mickey Mouse' on any birthday cake just about anywhere you wanted. After allowing this for many years, Disney decided to crack down on bakeries across the country that were doing so. They sent letters out to the bakeries saying if they didn't pay a licensing fee, they were not allowed to put any Disney character on any of their cakes. Now, most of those bakeries simply ceased to put Disney pictures on the cakes, much to the chagrin of many a parent (and children.) Eventually, many of the bakeries (especially in chain groceries) purchased the license and were able to start putting them on cakes again (at a slightly higher charge due to the need to generate the continuing licensing fee.) That was an example of Disney excercising their rights after not doing so for many years.

The point is, most cases when IP rights violations have occurred never make it to court. Rather, if the IP holder sends a letter threatening legal action, most will comply and cease their activity. After all, if you were a little guy up against a big corporation and you KNEW you didn't have a legal leg to stand on, wouldn't you capitulate quickly?

So...you're right. NeuroMason could be quite safe in making handlinks and selling them. Universal COULD look the other way. Then again, Universal COULD decide to do something about it (and other things that are being done in violation of their IP rights if they so desired.) It would be wrong to mislead him and say that they just WON'T come after him. They might not but then again they might. It's a risk one takes.

I can say this, if Universal WERE to legally come after these types of violaters (the K.I.T.T.S and such,) those people wouldn't have a leg to stand on UNLESS they have purchased licenses or otherwise received permission. They are making money off of someone elses IP rights (just like the bakeries were with Disney characters on cakes.) That IS a violation of U.S. IP laws and as such is actionable.

Thus, I stand by what I've said. NeuroMason will have to decide what he wishes to do and accept whatever risks are inherrent in that decision (potential and current.) Risk is the probability of an event times the magnitude of consequesnce. Again, it's good to know what IP rights a person is trampling on so that they aren't surprised if one get called on it. The call may never come, but assuming that because the calls haven't been made in the past means they won't in the future is simply sticking your head in the sand.

So, NeuroMason, make your decision based on the calculated risk and the amount of risk you feel comfortable with. Only you can decide that.
 
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I'll chime in on this a little bit. I think Helen's being very wise and helpful with all of this. It's a VERY tricky area when you're dealing with copyrights held by a large corporation like Universal. We had to go through quite a bit of negotiation with them just for the right to use the QL logo in a few limited places to advertise the con.

As far as the KITT cars and other such items go, they probably do have all of that on their radar but have apparently decided that pursuing that person legally wouldn't be cost-effective. In a sense it's a form of advertising for their product, keeping interest alive, and it wouldn't be worthwhile for them to pay attorneys' fees to get the person shut down. I imagine that's why a lot of fan-made products get by.

I was at a con a number of years ago where Richard Arnold explained Paramount's take on fanzines. They very much saw them as advertising for their product (Star Trek) and were willing to look the other way provided the print run didn't go above 1000 and no obvious profit was made. Now that fanfic has moved to the Internet and is available for the asking, it's very plain that there's no profit happening, while the "advertising" factor is very much alive. So yes, fanfic isn't strictly kosher (although there's increasing interest in the "secondary creativity" area of law) but it has worth to the holder of the original copyright.

Speaking from my own opinion though ('cause...NOT a lawyer), I'd be VERY careful about marketing $400 handlinks. Nobody in Univeral's legal department is going to be fooled for two seconds by an item description that says it's a t-shirt that's being sold, and the handlink is "free." It's nice to want to make a product that other fans can enjoy - but I think the underlying motive here is profit.