Old 08-07-2013, 04:01 AM   #1
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Default Sam's Screwed Up Logic

Having re-watched Boogie*an with my best friend some weeks ago I picked up on Sam telling what we later find out to be Satan:
"Look, if I leap into a murderer's life, then I, Sam Beckett, I'm not gonna kill
an innocent person. So then I've accomplished what I'm here for, and I should leap, right?"


Just now I watched Blood Moon and he uses this logic once again.
"If Corington did it, than history changed as soon as I got here because I'm him and I'm not gonna kill her right?"

This kind of bugs me now, as an intelligent man shouldn't Sam know better than this? He knows that when he leaps out the person who is returned to their time continues with the timeline not him. This is shown in the second evil leapers episode.

"I need you and Beeks to do a full profile on Arnold, find out what makes this guy tick otherwise I'll leap out, he'll leap back in and start marauding all over again."

So why wouldn't he know that leaping out and putting the other person back in their time would allow an impending murder to proceed?
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:38 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan View Post
Having re-watched Boogie*an with my best friend some weeks ago I picked up on Sam telling what we later find out to be Satan:
"Look, if I leap into a murderer's life, then I, Sam Beckett, I'm not gonna kill
an innocent person. So then I've accomplished what I'm here for, and I should leap, right?"

Just now I watched Blood Moon and he uses this logic once again.
"If Corington did it, than history changed as soon as I got here because I'm him and I'm not gonna kill her right?"

This kind of bugs me now, as an intelligent man shouldn't Sam know better than this? He knows that when he leaps out the person who is returned to their time continues with the timeline not him. This is shown in the second evil leapers episode.

"I need you and Beeks to do a full profile on Arnold, find out what makes this guy tick otherwise I'll leap out, he'll leap back in and start marauding all over again."

So why wouldn't he know that leaping out and putting the other person back in their time would allow an impending murder to proceed?
Well, I think it just may be bad writing. We already know Sam is a good guy no matter what, so it could be just a vehicle to move the plot along and quickly dismiss him as a suspect and probably also the person he leapt into, telling us that the murder is still going to happen at some point, even though we already know that little hint is not needed. Now all we have to do is try to figure out who the killer is going to be. In The B episode, it's actually quite a surprise, but on "Blood Moon" it was all pretty clear since the beginning.

A weird and unneeded line, in my opinion. It does not make any real sense, and it actually makes Sam look a bit self-centered, as if all he wanted to do was just leap out of there and forget about the situation, whether it is resolved or not. We also know he wants to go home and that, at some point, he gets a bit tired, but that line is a bit... hmmm... off (not really over-the-top, but like "meh"). Anyway, I think it's just a line that was not thought out very carefully and that it slept through the guys in the cutting room floor. Things like these used to happen quite often with a lot of shows from the 80's/90's. Even the good ones like QL were not entirely safe from time to time.
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:51 AM   #3
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Agreed on the point that the Boogiem*n occurrence shouldn't actually count since that entire leap had been a sham. Since when time is rewound it was Tully who turned out to be the objective I have a mind to believe that Mary had never been fated to be murdered. Actually the devil pretty much directly answers this:
"And Mary...she was never in danger?"
"She is now."

In fact I also wonder if she was even epileptic, it seemed pretty obvious once you know the plot twist that the devil had set up that whole flying skull and seizure episode to make her look as though she had a demon in her.

Though I digress, I had no intention of going so far into analyzing the episode.

The suggestion that concept of the line as used in Blood Moon was a display of Sam's anxiousness to return home is well thought out. Thinking about a similar occurrence in Thou Shalt Not referring to in this instance an affair rather than a murder it may also pertain to Sam's discomfort with or stress of a situation, the idea that Sam could possibly take a mistress. Blood Moon, people who behave like vampires and human sacrifice and even the invalid occurrence in Boogym*n, a bizarre murder that Ziggy somehow uncharacteristically missed would also fit this.
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:18 AM   #4
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Agreed on the point that the Boogiem*n occurrence shouldn't actually count since that entire leap had been a sham. Since when time is rewound it was Tully who turned out to be the objective I have a mind to believe that Mary had never been fated to be murdered. Actually the devil pretty much directly answers this:
"And Mary...she was never in danger?"
"She is now."
In fact I also wonder if she was even epileptic, it seemed pretty obvious once you know the plot twist that the devil had set up that whole flying skull and seizure episode to make her look as though she had a demon in her.

Though I digress, I had no intention of going so far into analyzing the episode.

The suggestion that concept of the line as used in Blood Moon was a display of Sam's anxiousness to return home is well thought out. Thinking about a similar occurrence in Thou Shalt Not referring to in this instance an affair rather than a murder it may also pertain to Sam's discomfort with or stress of a situation, the idea that Sam could possibly take a mistress. Blood Moon, people who behave like vampires and human sacrifice and even the invalid occurrence in Boogym*n, a bizarre murder that Ziggy somehow uncharacteristically missed would also fit this.
You're right. After all, Sam is only a human being like the rest of us (well, he can see a hologram, hahaha, JK!!), with emotions and fears. He's of course going to want to get the heck outta dodge from time to time.

The B episode and "Blood Moon". I think they were both very funny and entertaining episodes. The only thing I didn't quite like about Blood Moon was that, at some point, Sam is a bit too naive. I mean, why would he drink something from... that couple? Hahaha! Oh well, of course, without that scene, we wouldn't have the final ["suspenseful/conflicting"] confrontation. Not one of Tommy's best screenplays (actually his very last one in the series), but still very entertaining.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:53 PM   #5
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Excellent observation, it is quite careless for Sam to have accepted the drink from that couple when he knew that Alexandra would be murdered that night and NOT by Nigel (even if it was in the original history) since he was locked up in the waiting room. My guess was that since Sam knew the murder weapon was a dagger not poison paired with his discomfort with the situation, it simply didn't cross his mind.
My biggest issue with Blood Moon however was the ending in which Sam for the first time tries to confront his reflection but doesn't have one(as original lore tells vampires don't). The same distaste I find in the suggestive endings of Starlight Starbright and The Beast Within.It's simply too much unnaturalness for Quantum Leap. I prefer smaller surprises such as the housekeeper in season 2's Portrait for Troian or something that fits in with the force driving Sam such as in The Boogiem*n which is one of my favorite episodes and in It's a Wonderful Leap.
But to introduce the actual existence of vampires, bigfoot and aliens on this show was just unfitting.
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:32 AM   #6
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Excellent observation, it is quite careless for Sam to have accepted the drink from that couple when he knew that Alexandra would be murdered that night and NOT by Nigel (even if it was in the original history) since he was locked up in the waiting room. My guess was that since Sam knew the murder weapon was a dagger not poison paired with his discomfort with the situation, it simply didn't cross his mind.
My biggest issue with Blood Moon however was the ending in which Sam for the first time tries to confront his reflection but doesn't have one(as original lore tells vampires don't). The same distaste I find in the suggestive endings of Starlight Starbright and The Beast Within.It's simply too much unnaturalness for Quantum Leap. I prefer smaller surprises such as the housekeeper in season 2's Portrait for Troian or something that fits in with the force driving Sam such as in The Boogiem*n which is one of my favorite episodes and in It's a Wonderful Leap.
But to introduce the actual existence of vampires, bigfoot and aliens on this show was just unfitting.
Hahaha! I understand. I thought those little surprises were actually quite funny. It was a nice touch from the writers of these episodes to add them there, in my opinion, because they were being true and faithful to the fantasy genre. After all that's what QL is, a fantasy/sci-fi show (more fantasy most of the time, in my opinion). The goal of these surprises was to get a little chuckle out of you to break the tension and leave you with a smile. I think they succeeded. But yeah, I can see why they may not be everyone's cup of tea. The problem was that when they began focusing more on the fantasy elements, the show was gone. They didn't give it enough chance. It deserved at least 5 more seasons.

By the way, I thought the ending to "Troian" was very Twilight Zone-ish. It was very well done. The music and the edition helped a lot there. It actually made my skin crawl a little, hehe!
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:20 AM   #7
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A very valid perspective, while it's true that fantasy is part of the show's genre time travel is specifically scientific fantasy. In which case the Aliens weren't extremely far off. Supernatural however is a different kind of fantasy.

In regards to Portrait for Troian, it wasn't until later that I caught this but I love the subtle references to the housekeeper knowing Sam's true identity.
First when she said "Strangers are not welcome here." and then I don't find it coincidence that she'd locked Sam in the study right before the attempt on Troian's life.
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:31 AM   #8
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A very valid perspective, while it's true that fantasy is part of the show's genre time travel is specifically scientific fantasy. In which case the Aliens weren't extremely far off. Supernatural however is a different kind of fantasy.

In regards to Portrait for Troian, it wasn't until later that I caught this but I love the subtle references to the housekeeper knowing Sam's true identity.
First when she said "Strangers are not welcome here." and then I don't find it coincidence that she'd locked Sam in the study right before the attempt on Troian's life.
Yup. I always knew there was something wrong with her since the beginning, though. The subtle references you mention, and also the fact that she always has that deep, penetrating look, especially towards Sam, always told me she was definitely someone not to be trusted. Like "what is her damn problem?", haha! I just didn't know that she was a "ghost", and when I found out, well, that really caught me off-guard, hehe! What Sam tells her when she tells him that she never watches TV: "Oh, come on, Ms. Stoltz, I bet you're hooked... on The Twilight Zone!" always cracks me up.
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:19 PM   #9
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The episodes discussed above aren't my all time favorites, but I liked them. Al was very funny in Blood Moon, and I loved him as the devil in B M*n. I think it was a normal reaction at times for Sam to not want to have to deal with what he was dealing with and get out of the situation. One of the things that I loved about Sam was he always came through and did what he was supposed to even if he was scared or had doubts. And then it is true that in B M*n particularly, things weren't as they appeared; things were messed up to make it difficult for Sam to do what he was supposed to.

These are fun Halloween episodes.
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:47 PM   #10
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Yup. I always knew there was something wrong with her since the beginning, though. The subtle references you mention, and also the fact that she always has that deep, penetrating look, especially towards Sam, always told me she was definitely someone not to be trusted. Like "what is her damn problem?", haha! I just didn't know that she was a "ghost", and when I found out, well, that really caught me off-guard, hehe! What Sam tells her when she tells him that she never watches TV: "Oh, come on, Ms. Stoltz, I bet you're hooked... on The Twilight Zone!" always cracks me up.
Took me very off guard as well finding out that she was the aforementioned unfaithful wife of Nathaniel Claridge who lived over 100 years ago.

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The episodes discussed above aren't my all time favorites, but I liked them. Al was very funny in Blood Moon, and I loved him as the devil in B M*n. I think it was a normal reaction at times for Sam to not want to have to deal with what he was dealing with and get out of the situation. One of the things that I loved about Sam was he always came through and did what he was supposed to even if he was scared or had doubts. And then it is true that in B M*n particularly, things weren't as they appeared; things were messed up to make it difficult for Sam to do what he was supposed to.

These are fun Halloween episodes.
The only reason really worth watching Blood Moon in my opinion is for the Al humor. Absolutely the best part. Favorite line:
Al: "I'm telling you, he's got all the markings of the undead."
Sam: "Then you've got all the markings of the brain dead!"

Cracks me up every time.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:24 PM   #11
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My favorite Blood Moon line:

Al: ...He's got the pale complexion, the beady eyes, the lustful stare...

Sam: Al, you just described yourself!

Priceless. I could usually find something to like about every episode even if they weren't my favorites and Al made this one worth watching.
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:32 PM   #12
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Haha oh indeed that was priceless!
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:08 PM   #13
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Haha oh indeed that was priceless!
Oh, my! You sounded just like Evil Al, haha!
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:56 PM   #14
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You know every time someone says "That was Priceless" I am gonna hear it in the Devil Al's voice. God how ever did Dean manage that creepy weeze of a laugh!? Must be the smoking.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:08 AM   #15
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You know every time someone says "That was Priceless" I am gonna hear it in the Devil Al's voice. God how ever did Dean manage that creepy weeze of a laugh!? Must be the smoking.
Oh! Dean... He's one of the most prolific and versatile actors I know. He can pull off almost anything. I once saw him in a little suspense flick called "Twilight Man". He was very evil there. Almost reminded me of Devil Al, except that in this case there he was this geeky human little devil that was obsessed with everything that had to do with electronic stuff. He wants to drive a guy nuts by constantly stalking him. If you haven't seen it, I recommend it, even though it's not so good, but the Dean moments are worthwhile. The ending is actually funny.

OK, sorry, that was very off-topic, haha!
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:09 PM   #16
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My best friend might be interested she enjoys watching Dean's other works as I once obsessed over Scott's myself. Now Scott does a **** load of dramatic and even some tragic stuff outside of QL. The last half hour or so alone of In the Name of the People (which is all I had once caught and all I ever will), holy crap that was heartbreaking ****! It makes the QL episode where he is in a similar position, Last Dance Before an Execution look like rainbows and butterflies.

We once watched Married to the Mob with Dean, the film he had just finished when he was cast as Al. If thought Don Gino was an *** wait until you see Tony the Tiger!
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:29 PM   #17
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My best friend might be interested she enjoys watching Dean's other works as I once obsessed over Scott's myself. Now Scott does a **** load of dramatic and even some tragic stuff outside of QL. The last half hour or so alone of In the Name of the People (which is all I had once caught and all I ever will), holy crap that was heartbreaking ****! It makes the QL episode where he is in a similar position, Last Dance Before an Execution look like rainbows and butterflies.

We once watched Married to the Mob with Dean, the film he had just finished when he was cast as Al. If thought Don Gino was an *** wait until you see Tony the Tiger!
Oh yeah, I think that's one of Dean's many famous roles. The weirdest one he has I think it's the one from "Blue Velvet". On a side-note, he was (or is) very good friends with Dennis Hopper (who also appeared on that movie). I believe I once saw a video on this site where he says that Dennis even recommended the role of Admiral Calavicci to the QL staff. Very interesting. Of course I also love his role in "The Langoliers", haha!

The only movies I've seen with Scott are "Lord Of Illusions" and that other Hallmark-looking flick where he has to land a plane, I don't remember the title. I caught that movie once, exactly in the Hallmark channel. Didn't know anything about it but kept watching because Scott was in it, and had to tape the whole second half because I had to go out but didn't want to miss the ending. It kept me hooked and I wanted to know if Scott was going to make it with that very problematic plane or not, haha! I was on the edge of my seat.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:46 PM   #18
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Right, Dean's role in The Langoliers was very good, in fact he has a scene where he sounds exactly like Sam as he theorizes their predicament. XD

Of Scott's films I have seen:
Lord of Illusions (I He's effing SEXY in that movie)
Netforce (I hope I got that title right)
Major Leagues: Back to the Minors
Blue Smoke
Above Suspicion (In which there is a scene that made me cry like a baby).
Role of a Lifetime
What Girls Learn
Necessary Roughness

I actually have Blue Smoke and Above Suspicion recorded on VHS, and the DVD of Lord of Illusions.

And of his TV roles I have seen
some of his episodes of Murphy Brown where he is very Al
some of Star Trek Enterprise
His appearances in New Adventures of Old Christine.
And a show that seemed to have bombed because ever since the first season I have not heard of it, called 'Men of a Certain Age'. He was great though, Al would have been proud. He was a total womanizing one night stand guy. Even more so than in Murphy Brown. XD
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Old 08-29-2013, 01:54 AM   #19
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Right, Dean's role in The Langoliers was very good, in fact he has a scene where he sounds exactly like Sam as he theorizes their predicament. XD

Of Scott's films I have seen:
Lord of Illusions (I He's effing SEXY in that movie)
Netforce (I hope I got that title right)
Major Leagues: Back to the Minors
Blue Smoke
Above Suspicion (In which there is a scene that made me cry like a baby).
Role of a Lifetime
What Girls Learn
Necessary Roughness

I actually have Blue Smoke and Above Suspicion recorded on VHS, and the DVD of Lord of Illusions.

And of his TV roles I have seen
some of his episodes of Murphy Brown where he is very Al
some of Star Trek Enterprise
His appearances in New Adventures of Old Christine.
And a show that seemed to have bombed because ever since the first season I have not heard of it, called 'Men of a Certain Age'. He was great though, Al would have been proud. He was a total womanizing one night stand guy. Even more so than in Murphy Brown. XD
Oh, I always wanted to see Blue Smoke. I take it it's a romance flick with some suspenseful moments, but still.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:22 PM   #20
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Blue Smoke is not a romance, it's a Drama/murder mystery about a young woman firefighter trainee who's boyfriends/fiancee are somehow being targeted in a series of murders. Scott plays her mentor and in a lot of ways second father whose known her since childhood when her parents' restaurant burns down(he's also a firefighter). It's one of my favorites of his.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:56 AM   #21
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Blue Smoke is not a romance, it's a Drama/murder mystery about a young woman firefighter trainee who's boyfriends/fiancee are somehow being targeted in a series of murders. Scott plays her mentor and in a lot of ways second father whose known her since childhood when her parents' restaurant burns down(he's also a firefighter). It's one of my favorites of his.
Oh, I was just saying because I read somewhere that it also had romance in it. Sorry. I didn't actually know anything about the movie.
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:23 PM   #22
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Well I suppose it does some but it's not the main point of the story.
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:56 AM   #23
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Well I suppose it does some but it's not the main point of the story.
Noted. Thanks.
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:08 AM   #24
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This conversation is making me wish we had a VCR in the living room. I am getting the urge to watch it.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:49 AM   #25
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This conversation is making me wish we had a VCR in the living room. I am getting the urge to watch it.
Oh, what a shame. I still have one and it's what I actually use. It's a dual (VCR/DVD) player. In that aspect, it seems like I'm still living in the early 2000's. Haven't gotten a blu-ray or an HDTV yet, but I feel I'm gonna have to surrender to the modern age pretty soon, whether I like it or not. There's just no way to stop this.
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