The opening exchanges between Sam and Al, and then the milkman are classic Quantum Leap! Top episode, and great performances from the Scott and Dean.
Personally I am a huge fan of the Sam and Donna relationship and her character, I and my best friend both. From the joy it brought him to be around her and his determination to make her his forever in Star Crossed to the same spell she had him under and their instant reconnection like they hadn't been a part for a minute here during his short return home.I have to say that she's about the strongest example of the old saying of "behind every great man there's a great woman" that I've ever seen.
Shameless plug...
The whole Donna marriage thing bothers me too, so for a long time I avoided it in my fanfic. However, I did address it, and her relationship with Sammi Jo, in my stories 'Snake in the Grass' and 'ME, myself and Sam' over at
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/827199/Madders_Ahatter
They are nos 4 & 5 in a five story arc - but you could probably read them without the first three without losing too much in terms of that relationship.
I'm afraid I can't find these stories since you deleted them, do you have them archived anywhere else?
Something has just occurred to me, watching this episode now.
"Don't you remember? The timeline in Ziggy's databanks were limited to your lifetime."
"Right, and Al's in 1945."
"And we didn't know that until we got your letter."
How did they not know the year until it is disclosed in Sam's letter? Why didn't they speak to Tom Jared in the waiting room?
One can assume that since the Project went into lockdown thinking there had been an explosion and needing protection from the radioactive fallout, that the Waiting Room was sealed off as the Imaging Chamber had been... I expect that only the Control Room was accessible at the time, for the purpose of trying to locate Sam and override the failsafe procedure.
Which gets me thinking - is there a supply of food and water in the Waiting Room? Otherwise Tom Jared might have been very dehydrated and hungry by the time they could get to him...
That doesn't make it factual that the waiting room was locked down, it could simply be a writing flaw. Somewhat like how Al stated in Animal Frat that Sam was 16 in college but in The Leap Home Sam 16 year old Sam is about to finish High School.
As much as I enjoyed this episode (it's one of a few I've watched twice), it does have some problems. I think the main problem is that it should have been a two-part story because there is too much going on for just a one hour episode and the whole thing ends up feeling very rushed.
For his part, Sam seems so focused on saving Al that it's almost as if he's brushing Donna aside.
I know this show plays fast and loose with the whole "swiss cheese memory" idea but this episode takes it to another level. If leaping discombobulates you that much, how does Sam even remember what he's there to do once he leaps into Al? He remembers that, but not his wife?
imonrey said:The other big problem I have is how Sam remembers being married to Donna. In the original timeline she left him at the altar. I know he changed history in Star Crossed, but he shouldn't remember the altered history, otherwise his memory would have changed at the end of Star Crossed. Maybe he only "remembers" once he's back in 1999, the revised version, which is why he forgets again when he leaps back, but it's a real stretch.
imonrey said:I think the main problem is that it should have been a two-part story because there is too much going on for just a one hour episode and the whole thing ends up feeling very rushed.
blue enigma said:I have all kinds of problems with the Donna storyline in general. I don't dislike the character as I know some fans do, just the story arc, and I definitely pick up the same vibe of Sam brushing Donna aside when he's about to step into the accelerator again. It's part of the reason I don't buy her as the love of Sam's life, as is suggested in this episode and 'Star Crossed' [and I really dislike 'Star Crossed' - I have several issues with it, but that's a separate topic]. The rushedness of the episode is a big part of that. I also personally don't find there to be enough chemistry between the two actors, even though Scott Bakula and Mimi Kuzyk are both good actors.
I however would like to remind you Blue Enigma that when Sam saw how much pain the thought of losing him again caused Donna he re-thought it and very well may not have gone if she hadn't suddenly felt a pang of guilt for Al's life and insisted he go. It clearly wasn't an easy decision but come on, we're talking about Sam Beckett here. This would have been the ultimate selfishness for him to let even a stranger let alone his best friend die for the sake of his love life. And Donna knows that, she understands what she married into that's why she's his soul mate as Beth was Al's ("Flying was his first love, the Navy was his second and I guess I was his third, but I knew that when I married him"). At least that is the impression Scott has which is supported by the end scene of the episode. My favorite thing about the novel Mirror's Edge is it's portrayal of Donna in this way.
blue enigma said:The execution is the problem though. Of course it wasn't an easy decision for Sam and Donna wasn't going to let Al die, both for unselfish and selfish reasons. But because the episode was so rushed it does feel like he's brushing her aside and there is something very unsatisfying about it. For me anyway.
blue enigma said:I think Sam acts like a creep to her in the 'Star Crossed' episode
blue enigma said:As for whether she was his soul mate or not, maybe she was. But so was Abigail Fuller in the 'Trilogy', and Tamlyn in 'Temptation Eyes', etc.
As a first impression I can understand that but as the series progresses we learn that Sam simply becomes careless and impulsive when very determined. He pushed a bit hard because he loves her so much.
In conclusion after Sam leaped out of the college professor he probably got wiped of his memory of Donna including that she stood him up at the alter since his memory partially resets with each leap so he can't regain a memory that he never had and no longer exists. Whereas Al can immediately step into the new present with untampered memory of the previous. The new timeline however is suggested to gradually override the previous in his immediate memory.
Did I make any sense at all? I did the best I could. My best friend had a really easy way of putting this when we discussed this not too long ago but it's escaped me. XP
I think I would have found this episode more satisfying if he explained to Donna that they are only married because he went back and changed history, and while he wishes they had that life together, it's not real to him like it is to her, which is why he has to leave her again.
I understand what you're getting at, but I still think one of the reasons this show tended to avoid getting into the specific mechanics of how PQL works is because they know it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, which I think this episode demonstrates. When you start to pick at it, it all falls apart.
See, for example, Honeymoon Express. Sam changes history and right before Al's eyes, one of the "judges" on the Senate committee changes from a man to the woman whose history Sam has altered. Now, Al seems to realize there's suddenly a different person there. Do the other judges sitting next to her? We don't get any kind of reaction from them like "Hey, who are you and where in the heck did you come from, and what happened to so-and-so?" To them, it's as if she's been the head judge all along. So why does Al notice the change? Because he's part of PQL?
Like I said, Al would remember both timelines. For example, some have speculated thatIt seems to me that if Sam ended up marrying Donna as a result of changing history in Star-Crossed, then once Al returned to PQL, as far as he knows, Sam has been married to Donna all along. He shouldn't remember the original timeline where Sam wasn't married to her. If not, then Sam should remember only the original timeline or both of them when he returns to PQL in this episode.
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)this would be simply untrue, because Al WOULD have the memory of experiencing everything.
after Sam stops Beth from remarrying, that Al would no longer be a part of the project, or even if he was, he wouldn't be as useful because he wouldn't have experienced the same things,
We have to rememberThe fact that Sam is only married to Donna because he changed history in Star-Crossed is really something that needed to be addressed here. I'm not sure they were banking of most of the audience remembering that episode. I think they were more interested in going for a shocking reveal that Sam was married and didn't remember it. But it doesn't work for me, because it seems to me he shouldn't remember it. I think I would have found this episode more satisfying if he explained to Donna that they are only married because he went back and changed history, and while he wishes they had that life together, it's not real to him like it is to her, which is why he has to leave her again.
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
that it is Sam leaping himself around. Therefore, it makes sense that he would subconsciously block out anything that would prevent him from completing his life's work, even someone he loves as much as Donna.
Oof, that would be extremely painful for her and I think it would make Sam seem cruel. Unless he intended to leap back and convince her to marry the first guy she was engaged to, which I would find satisfying as a way to wrap up this story arc. I feel that's what should have happened anyway, if Sam's theory in 'Star-Crossed' about how to fix things for her is anything to go by. But as you pointed out they were going either for the shocking reveal of Sam being married and not remembering, and/or that Sam's leap back in 'Star-Crossed' worked.
We have to rememberSpoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
that it is Sam leaping himself around. Therefore, it makes sense that he would subconsciously block out anything that would prevent him from completing his life's work, even someone he loves as much as Donna.
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
If he remembered her he might want to stop leaping. And the part of him that wants to keep leaping/feels he has to keep leaping subconsciously/unconsciously blocks that out.
THIS would have been an amazing trilogy. Have Sam leap again to save Al, the project would try to retrieve him but be unsuccessful, have an entire episode dedicated to the project and have Donna become mentally unstable from being abandoned by another man, and then in the final episode, Al would break his silence and tell Sam exactly what he thinks of him selfishly changing history for himself at Donna's expense, and Sam then leaping away to convince Donna to marry her first fiance.
How is this a flaw? He could easily have finished school and then started university before having his next birthday...
Lightning McQueenie said:We have to remember
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
that it is Sam leaping himself around. Therefore, it makes sense that he would subconsciously block out anything that would prevent him from completing his life's work, even someone he loves as much as Donna.
Lightning McQueenie said:For example, some have speculated that
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
after Sam stops Beth from remarrying, that Al would no longer be a part of the project, or even if he was, he wouldn't be as useful because he wouldn't have experienced the same things,
this would be simply untrue, because Al WOULD have the memory of experiencing everything.
A typical school year in America ends in June. Sam's birthday is August 8th.
He graduated with a proceeding class to his own but still it should have occurred in June.
Unless he started M.I.T in the summer which isn't specified but even then he'd be 16 at M.I.T for a maximum 2 months. Guess it still counts however. So I suppose it could work.
No, this does not fit.
Sam (nor the project) are aware that it's possible for him to guide himself, thus he is not.
There are however leaps which Sam is connected to on such a personal level that I believe it is possible that he was drawn to them subconsciously. I actually started a thread years ago theorizing this and it's still around.
To be honest,that idea comforts me.I mean the series ends with saying Sam never returned home.I want to believe that it would be his choice not to come back not because he couldn't.So I think it's plausible that the 'Mirror Image' leap is a turning point and as Sam continues to improve he can now consciously guide himself. Or maybe he can make the choice to either target his leaping or let the time stream take him whenever and wherever he's needed.
To be honest,that idea comforts me.I mean the series ends with saying Sam never returned home.I want to believe that it would be his choice not to come back not because he couldn't.
blue enigma said:The end of 'Mirror Image' makes it clear to me that Sam can leap to where and when he wants, as he leaps to Beth at exactly the right time and place the moment he knows he has to and wants to.
Lightning McQueenie said:and Sam then leaping away to convince Donna to marry her first fiance.
ladystoneheart said:To be honest,that idea comforts me.I mean the series ends with saying Sam never returned home.I want to believe that it would be his choice not to come back not because he couldn't.
Of course but at this point he had been made away of the ability. As opposed to say when he leaped into Lawrence college at the exact point in time when a turning point in Donna's faith in men would need to be made to ensure that she marries. Whether it's Sam, the prior fiancee or otherwise.
Anyway returning to Blue Enigma, there is a difference between how he got to Beth that second time and how he ended up in other ironic leaps such as Camakazi Kid, Future Boy and Vietnam. Still you are right and in a way he has at least some of the time guiding himself.
By the way every time I watch Thou Shalt Not and Al says "Try clicking your heels together three times and saying there's no place like home" I always think about how ironically correct he actually was. How interesting is that.
Actually it's worse if you really think about it. Considering not only Donna but the entire project who devoted their lives to finding a way to bring their lost director home and his mother, sister and the brother he made a huge fuss over sparing, it's in fact a partially selfish choice to not ever return home. Not to mention unnecessary! why not return home in between leaps and perhaps even at times alternate with Al. This way he could have both of the conflicting lives he desires; the one where he touches lives and changes them for the better and the one where he is home with those who know his true self and love him.
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