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Old 01-06-2010, 02:55 PM   #26
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thought the mozaic was only there when panning? Doesn't look like the camera angle is changing.
Handlink art :-)



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Hey guys,

I've been watching the segment with Scott, Don, and Dean.

Does anyone have any insight to the blinking colored dots on the right side of the display throughout this ~1 hour segment? Is this sort of a J.J. Abrams thing like Lost or Fringe where there are hidden messages?

Help me out here...









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Old 01-06-2010, 03:50 PM   #27
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thought the mozaic was only there when panning? Doesn't look like the camera angle is changing.
Handlink art :-)
These animated dots consistently appear and disappear with regular frequency on the right side of the image, regardless of the panning of the camera. So it's not the same issue as the panning mosaic effect. However considering both issues occur in the same part of the image, it tells me that one issue exacerbated the other. Very likely a cheap, no-name DV videotape brand was used in a camera that has already demonstrated major issues.

DV is somewhat temperamental (it's a fat 25Mbps stream on a very small tape) and does not appreciate dirty heads or inexpensive blanks. Even under the ideal situations, infrequent dropouts are expected.

Now that I've watched more of the DVD, I have spotted that elusive other camera angle. It seems to appear on the DVD only when the tape in the deck at the back-of-the-room was being replaced. And there's a perfectly good reason why -- The audio quality is quite harsh, and the image is rather washed out.


This whole situation is just an indication of why you don't allow 1 person to monopolize a project of this scope. You have checks and balances. You ask questions. You have a discussion. Barbara clearly hyped up her credentials and thought she could wing it.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:55 PM   #28
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Does anyone have any insight to the blinking colored dots on the right side of the display throughout this ~1 hour segment?
You'd have to ask Helene and Barbara. Helene was responsible for the camera and A/V rental and Barbara was of course in charge of the DVD disaster.
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:44 PM   #29
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So the camera at the back of the room was from the A/V rental company? I guess they were the cheapest outfit in the phone book if they used a poor camera, poor tapes, and didn't know how to operate a tripod.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:46 PM   #30
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So the camera at the back of the room was from the A/V rental company? I guess they were the cheapest outfit in the phone book if they used a poor camera, poor tapes, and didn't know how to operate a tripod.

Even cheap rental footage and poor quality can still be brushed up a little. Hey I managed to do that with VHS footage over 20 years old, so that's really no excuse (well not for me anyway)
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:50 PM   #31
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So the camera at the back of the room was from the A/V rental company? I guess they were the cheapest outfit in the phone book if they used a poor camera, poor tapes, and didn't know how to operate a tripod.

Yes, and I think the fact that the "editor" didn't properly store the DV tapes is another issue. Whether or not there was an actual editor or whether Barbara just did it all herself is in question right now.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:35 PM   #32
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How do you not properly store a DV tape? Leave it in your car to melt? Submerge it in Dr. Pepper?

I thing the fact that one side of the image is affected on all the tapes could be significant. Not sure what of though.
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Old 01-08-2010, 05:52 PM   #33
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Those colour cubes at the edge of the screen give me a headache!
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:44 PM   #34
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Those colour cubes at the edge of the screen give me a headache!

Well Janna, in all honesty you did say

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I'd really love to see the DVD. That's the thing I want the most.
when Brian asked us all how far we wanted him to take this. He dropped it because of fans stating pretty much the same as you did above.
And it's not like there were no warnings this could very well become a piece of crap if Brian would "drop it" as requested by the fans.

It's not a headache Janna, it's a hangover you're dealing with
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:48 PM   #35
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How do you not properly store a DV tape? Leave it in your car to melt? Submerge it in Dr. Pepper?

I thing the fact that one side of the image is affected on all the tapes could be significant. Not sure what of though.

the significanse would be that you're camcorder is having a near death experience and if you want to proceed using it you need yourself a decent editor or you need to buy yourselve a new camcorder. Did this "art" show up on any of the other footafe you received Morgan? Cause I know it's not on mine.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:31 AM   #36
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Well Janna, in all honesty you did say
when Brian asked us all how far we wanted him to take this.
And it's not like there were no warnings this could very well become a piece of crap if Brian would "drop it" as requested by the fans.
Just a minor problem. I can bare it. I bare very well with somethings I have to put up with in life.

So you're basically saying it's all my own fault? Well thanks very much! I'm being attacked because of a small thing I said?

RIGHT! I'm not posting a thing here for a while, until I calm down!!!
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:08 AM   #37
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Let's remember who the problem is here -- Barbara -- rather than taking out our frustrations or witticisms on other people.

Again, the only way you're going to get a complete video recording of the convention is to buy this flawed DVD. And the money is going to charity, not Barbara's pocket. So being a stick in the mud and refusing to buy it won't accomplish any of your goals.

Once all 300 copies of the "official" DVD are sold, then there will be a fan-produced DVD to look forward to.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:14 PM   #38
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I too am not severely impressed with the production but if we can get the original footage we could fix it. It would be a fun project. If this convention DVD were to ever face a re-edit I'd like to volunteer my services for free. shanedevon@gmail.com

Thanks, still, to those who made this convention happen. It's a shame the DVD's didn't get the full attention they deserve.

Be Well,
Shane
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Old 01-10-2010, 02:04 PM   #39
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Just a minor problem. I can bare it. I bare very well with somethings I have to put up with in life.

So you're basically saying it's all my own fault? Well thanks very much! I'm being attacked because of a small thing I said?

RIGHT! I'm not posting a thing here for a while, until I calm down!!!

Oh my..., nope I'm not saying it's your own fault, basically ALL the fans wanted Brian to drop cause they wanted the DVD (re-read and you''ll see that I mentioned that) even though there was plenty mentioned about something going gaga with the footage. Also stated very early on was that there would be problems with the DVD on sound and footage on the webside as well as posted by Babs on SBFF and reconfirmed on the starlight page. All I'm saying if the fans would have had a little more patience, and trust, in Brian he would have gotten to the footage one way or another, and could have stopped this home production and make sure something worthy would be the result in the end. There were plenty people ready to back him up financially if he was willing to take it to court or to help him out editing footage. He would gone out of his way for the fans to make sure this DVD would be all it should have been, but nope, the fans wanted Brian to drop it so Brain listened to the fans who really couldn't wait any longer and well I guess you seen the result.

Do you have right to *****..., of course you do, cause in good faith you still trusted Babs, even after all the **** they put Brian through, that there would be a decent DVD and since you don't know BAb's like I do or Brian does you had no reason to doubt she wouldn't give it her best. Are you personally responsible? Nope Bab's is for producing this piece of crap. Would things have been different if the fans hadn't asked Brian to drop it cause they were impatient and wanted their DVD? Yup I'm pretty sure they would have been and the wait for the DVD would have even been longer.

The only way to put right what went wrong would be another convention
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Old 01-10-2010, 04:21 PM   #40
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Do you have right to *****..., of course you do, cause in good faith you still trusted Babs, even after all the **** they put Brian through, that there would be a decent DVD and since you don't know BAb's like I do or Brian does you had no reason to doubt she wouldn't give it her best. Are you personally responsible? Nope Bab's is for producing this piece of crap. Would things have been different if the fans hadn't asked Brian to drop it cause they were impatient and wanted their DVD? Yup I'm pretty sure they would have been and the wait for the DVD would have even been longer.

The only way to put right what went wrong would be another convention
Nailed it. I trusted them and they messed up.

I shouldn't trust people as much.
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:11 PM   #41
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I think this is perhaps overstating fan reaction one way or the other on this. I don't think Brian felt "forced" by the fans. I don't think most fans were even aware of what was going on. The few fans who did pipe in offered to send money for legal fees.

But, I don't read Brian's e-mail, so maybe there was an avalanche of messages telling him to drop it and let the DVD go forward. Most of us (even me) were just waiting to see what was delivered. I had not drawn the conclusion that the footage would be "awful" and the DVD would be a "shambles" until I saw it. Brian and I heard that there were "some problems" with the footage, but we didn't actually see the footage until it arrived in our mailboxes.


For Brian to take the next step and force a legal action, based only on what Barbara was telling us or other assumptions, rather than actually seeing the footage, would have not been really all that productive. Yes, some folks offered financial assistance for any legal action, but overall, this would have become a nasty war of words and nobody would have really "won".

Now, if Barbara had shown the footage to Brian and said "We have a problem here, some of this footage is not usable", then Brian would have put this community to work and seen about getting every video recorded from the convention from the fans, and added that to the project and we would have possibly had a great DVD.

But since Barbara is incapable of humility and thinks everything she does is solid gold, not deserving of criticism, we got what we got.


Also, I think it was a matter of Brian had a new baby, it was rapidly approaching the end of the year, and the committee were taking more and more drastic action against Brian. And quite frankly, after fighting for 2 years, wouldn't you be tired? Eventually, it's not worth fighting anymore. I don't blame him for how this turned out. I put the blame where it belongs.


By the way, for the folks asking "where's the other camera angles?" I've concluded that we wouldn't want to see them. During the segment with Scott, Don, and Dean on the phone, for a short time the camera angle changes to the side. The quality is very washed out.

I'm guessing the quality of the video camera at the back of the room is the best of the 3 cameras, which is just sad. Even if we had every scrap of footage that Barbara recorded, I would not expect it to be anything better than we have now. But I could be wrong. The best footage yet could surface at one of those ScottFests.


Let's focus our attention back on the "extra" DVD...

First things first, I'm going to make sure the menus don't look like they were done by an 8 year old.
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:31 PM   #42
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Nailed it. I trusted them and they messed up.

I shouldn't trust people as much.

Not your fault, we all made the mistake of trusting Bab's and Helene at least ones and I too went If you ever get to meet them in person you'll see they're the most wonderfull fans you'd think you will ever meet, but just walk backwards when you walk away
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:01 PM   #43
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I think this is perhaps overstating fan reaction one way or the other on this. I don't think Brian felt "forced" by the fans.

Nope don't think so either, he just lisented to what the fans wanted. Thse 8 ladies should have followed that example

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I had not drawn the conclusion that the footage would be "awful" and the DVD would be a "shambles" until I saw it.
Well okay gotta explain I'm suspicious by trade, it's my job to see a potential killer behind every door unopened so when anyone (not just Bab's) would tell me there is a "little" damage to a product I sorta feel that they might be understating the actual damage. In Bab's case when it got stated (by herself by the way on SBFF) alarmbells go off. Major..., like ready to call 911.
Than the suspicion grows even further when it took for ever to get this DVD set up. Well I guess we all know now why that was, so Brian wouldn't have time to stop this. No doubt if they set this up months ago Brian would have probably asked if Bab's was insane. For that matter, and not to defend the committee ladies here, but I think they all would have asked her if she was insane handing that over to the fans. On the other hand you always will have a couple that will kiss their ***** and say she did great. You can read those replies on SBFF


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For Brian to take the next step and force a legal action, based only on what Barbara was telling us or other assumptions, rather than actually seeing the footage, would have not been really all that productive. Yes, some folks offered financial assistance for any legal action, but overall, this would have become a nasty war of words and nobody would have really "won".
I think Brian had way more on Bab's and all the ladies for that matter than just the footage since they acted illegal in many ways. Even the way they voted him out was illegal.

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But since Barbara is incapable of humility and thinks everything she does is solid gold, not deserving of criticism, we got what we got.
Yup you just hit the nail on the head, the power control thing.

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Also, I think it was a matter of Brian had a new baby, it was rapidly approaching the end of the year, and the committee were taking more and more drastic action against Brian. And quite frankly, after fighting for 2 years, wouldn't you be tired? Eventually, it's not worth fighting anymore. I don't blame him for how this turned out. I put the blame where it belongs.
Yes I would be tired too, hell I got tired too and gave up cause there was not enough time to fight back, my plane was leaving, so nope I don't blame Brian one bit, he did the best he could basically all by himself and maybe if he had at least one of the committee members behind him he could have continued (strenght in numbers and all that :-), but I know these ladies and I know they play their games and if they can't beat you legally they will do it illegally or just wear you out to a point where you give up.

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I'm guessing the quality of the video camera at the back of the room is the best of the 3 cameras, which is just sad. Even if we had every scrap of footage that Barbara recorded, I would not expect it to be anything better than we have now. But I could be wrong. The best footage yet could surface at one of those ScottFests.
There was a very nice little cam set up on the right side in the isle. I past it ones comming back from the bathroom or something. I got a glimps at the display and it looked really good on there. Any right angle towards stage footage on the DVD? Or is there none. I thought it was Brian operating it, it wasn't on sunday though. I can't even remember if I saw it there or if it was placed there sunday. I just remember walking in front of it cause I had to get to my seat and I wondered if I just messed up some footage so that's why I remember there was a cam in the isle on the right side
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:58 AM   #44
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I'm waiting on some footage right now. The next step is asking Brian to send a forumwide e-mail request for video footage. Unofficial, not related to Al's Place.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:26 AM   #45
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I too am not severely impressed with the production but if we can get the original footage we could fix it. It would be a fun project. If this convention DVD were to ever face a re-edit I'd like to volunteer my services for free. shanedevon@gmail.com

Thanks, still, to those who made this convention happen. It's a shame the DVD's didn't get the full attention they deserve.

Be Well,
Shane
Perhaps email cre612@aol.com to request the footage. That's Barbara, who is currently holding the footage hostage. Good luck.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:27 AM   #46
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I'm waiting on some footage right now. The next step is asking Brian to send a forumwide e-mail request for video footage. Unofficial, not related to Al's Place.
Doing it now, and to all attendees as well.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:35 AM   #47
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For Brian to take the next step and force a legal action, based only on what Barbara was telling us or other assumptions, rather than actually seeing the footage, would have not been really all that productive. Yes, some folks offered financial assistance for any legal action, but overall, this would have become a nasty war of words and nobody would have really "won".

Now, if Barbara had shown the footage to Brian and said "We have a problem here, some of this footage is not usable", then Brian would have put this community to work and seen about getting every video recorded from the convention from the fans, and added that to the project and we would have possibly had a great DVD.

But since Barbara is incapable of humility and thinks everything she does is solid gold, not deserving of criticism, we got what we got.

Also, I think it was a matter of Brian had a new baby, it was rapidly approaching the end of the year, and the committee were taking more and more drastic action against Brian. And quite frankly, after fighting for 2 years, wouldn't you be tired? Eventually, it's not worth fighting anymore. I don't blame him for how this turned out. I put the blame where it belongs.
All true. No one would have really won, and due to my baby, the holidays, and other pressing issues, I just could not afford to take on the time to mount a legal battle. Many fans did communicate that they wished me to halt if it would mean the DVD wouldn't come out at all - and as I always try to listen to the fan base and support them, then yes I did stop any legal avenues around that time. I have received over 50 or more personal emails stating how much people appreciate what I did and that what the other committee members did was unbelievable. I don't think anyone in their right mind will allow any of them on their team of any kind in the future, so at least there's that.

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First things first, I'm going to make sure the menus don't look like they were done by an 8 year old.
Yes - how horrible! The artwork done by Maryse was very good as always - but the menus are absolutely unforgiveable. Very amateur. Can't believe we paid thousands for it. Or maybe Barbara bought a new TV or something.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:02 PM   #48
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Many fans did communicate that they wished me to halt if it would mean the DVD wouldn't come out at all
As I recall, there was the threat of no DVD if Brian did not stop his course of action in posting what the "committee" was doing, or if he pursued legal actions.

Patience on the part of the fans IMHO did not seem to be the issue. Fans did not want to lose all footage.

It is obvious that the quality of the video was sub-standard at best. The video could have been cleaned up, trimmed, nice chapters made and all, by amatures. Just think what could professionals have done??
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:16 PM   #49
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Remember the day when you bought your first digital video camera and then got all excited when you managed to copy the footage to your computer, then you discovered the movie editing software that came free with your computer and you managed to make your first home movie?

Well that's what this is - it is no more than a home movie. It does its job and reminds you of a great time we had.

If you are expecting a Hollywood produced documentary of the weekend, you will be very disappointed with the quality, if you are after a home movie of the weekend you will be satisfied.
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:55 PM   #50
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Remember the day when you bought your first digital video camera and then got all excited when you managed to copy the footage to your computer, then you discovered the movie editing software that came free with your computer and you managed to make your first home movie?

Well that's what this is - it is no more than a home movie. It does its job and reminds you of a great time we had.

If you are expecting a Hollywood produced documentary of the weekend, you will be very disappointed with the quality, if you are after a home movie of the weekend you will be satisfied.
That's exactly the issue. We were promised this wonderful awesome professional DVD and got served a crappy homemade movie that Barbara didn't know how to make. At least she could have gotten someone who knew what the hell they were doing. Nice, huh?
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