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-   -   412 Running for Honor (http://quantumleap-alsplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1018)

Trudy 01-25-2012 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie (Post 58973)
Why did Al infuriate you in "Raped"?

Transcription of the scene in question:

Al: Ziggy showed me a bunch of newspaper stories. And they're all slanted against the victim.
Sam: It doesn't change the truth.
Al: What if it wasn't the truth?
Sam: Oh, come on, Al. Katie was raped. You know that.
Al: I dunno, I'm just saying that she wasn't raped by Kevin.
Sam: What?
Al: Ziggy says that there's a 47% chance that the rape occurred after she left Kevin.
Sam: What does Katie say?
Al: She says Kevin raped her.
Sam: Well, I think that Katie's telling the truth, don't you?
Al: Okay, let me play devil's advocate, okay? Katie and Kevin go out to dinner, they go out to a restaurant. They have a couple of glasses of wine and then they go out for a drive. They go out to Fort Conkite and they get into a little romantic discussion. The discussion turns to kissing and pretty soon the kissing gets passionate and then the passion gets into na-na-na daht-daht. You know?
Sam: Yeah, yeah.
Al: Okay, you know, then when they’re done, just say for some reason they get into an argument.
Sam: About what?
Al: I don’t know, say, oh, another woman. There’s always another woman. Katie gets angry, she gets outta the car and hitches a ride home."
Sam: And gets picked up by strangers.
Al: Hummm... Or … it could just be one guy! He sees that she’s tipsy and he sees that she’s hurt, she’s alone... He takes advantage of her. He rapes her, roughs her up, drops her at a hospital. Who’s the guy? She doesn’t know; she never saw him before. But she’s hurt and angry and humiliated, so who’s the only guy she can take it out on?"
Sam: Kevin.
Al: Bingo!
Sam: Only it didn’t happen that way.
Al: But you don’t know that for sure.

I have absolutely no idea why it would be permissible for anyone to every question the account of someone who has been raped. Maybe Al was really just playing devil's advocate, but it is ridiculous for him to bring up something like this in the first place. Rape victims already get a lot of unnecessary flack over the very, very, very few false charges made every year; this just perpetuates the idea that people cry rape out of a need for revenge.

The last thing that a victim of sexual assault needs is for someone not to believe their story when they finally pull forth the courage to come forward and speak about it.

Lightning McQueenie 01-26-2012 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trudy (Post 58974)
Transcription of the scene in question:

Al: Ziggy showed me a bunch of newspaper stories. And they're all slanted against the victim.
Sam: It doesn't change the truth.
Al: What if it wasn't the truth?
Sam: Oh, come on, Al. Katie was raped. You know that.
Al: I dunno, I'm just saying that she wasn't raped by Kevin.
Sam: What?
Al: Ziggy says that there's a 47% chance that the rape occurred after she left Kevin.
Sam: What does Katie say?
Al: She says Kevin raped her.
Sam: Well, I think that Katie's telling the truth, don't you?
Al: Okay, let me play devil's advocate, okay? Katie and Kevin go out to dinner, they go out to a restaurant. They have a couple of glasses of wine and then they go out for a drive. They go out to Fort Conkite and they get into a little romantic discussion. The discussion turns to kissing and pretty soon the kissing gets passionate and then the passion gets into na-na-na daht-daht. You know?
Sam: Yeah, yeah.
Al: Okay, you know, then when they’re done, just say for some reason they get into an argument.
Sam: About what?
Al: I don’t know, say, oh, another woman. There’s always another woman. Katie gets angry, she gets outta the car and hitches a ride home."
Sam: And gets picked up by strangers.
Al: Hummm... Or … it could just be one guy! He sees that she’s tipsy and he sees that she’s hurt, she’s alone... He takes advantage of her. He rapes her, roughs her up, drops her at a hospital. Who’s the guy? She doesn’t know; she never saw him before. But she’s hurt and angry and humiliated, so who’s the only guy she can take it out on?"
Sam: Kevin.
Al: Bingo!
Sam: Only it didn’t happen that way.
Al: But you don’t know that for sure.

I have absolutely no idea why it would be permissible for anyone to every question the account of someone who has been raped. Maybe Al was really just playing devil's advocate, but it is ridiculous for him to bring up something like this in the first place. Rape victims already get a lot of unnecessary flack over the very, very, very few false charges made every year; this just perpetuates the idea that people cry rape out of a need for revenge.

The last thing that a victim of sexual assault needs is for someone not to believe their story when they finally pull forth the courage to come forward and speak about it.

I think that Al is doing the right thing by playing Devil's Advocate, since he knows that these are exactly the arguments that the defence would be putting forward at the trial. Remember, they have to prove that Kevin is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. A 47% chance that she was raped by someone else brings in plenty of doubt. They're trying to get all the facts straight so that they have the best possible chance to get Kevin convicted.

I'm not for a second saying that rape victims deserve to not be believed, and I know exactly how hard it is for them and their families - my sister was recently raped by one of my own (former) friends in our house. But Al is exactly right, if Sam and Al are to get justice for Katie, they need to get all of the facts straight, to make sure that their actions are going to have the desired effect, i.e. having the rapist be convicted.

iMonrey 09-16-2013 04:46 PM

It seems funny that this episode was considered so "controversial" back in 1992, whereas nobody would think anything of it today. I guess that shows how far we've come in the past 21 years.

Markymarc8 08-08-2017 06:39 PM

Wow, great episode! Just saw it today for the first time. There was just one scene that bothered me. The cadets tried to hang Sam. They almost succeeded. Why didn't AL show up? Also why didn't Sam tell anybody?

Anorak 12-22-2018 11:33 AM

One thing I used to see in magazines in the pre-internet days was that the inspiration for this one was primarily the negative reaction to Good Night, Dear Heart, and that they wanted to craft a positive gay character as a result.

However, I can't find any evidence of this online, does anyone know how much truth there is in this story?

Lightning McQueenie 12-23-2018 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anorak (Post 62701)
One thing I used to see in magazines in the pre-internet days was that the inspiration for this one was primarily the negative reaction to Good Night, Dear Heart, and that they wanted to craft a positive gay character as a result.

However, I can't find any evidence of this online, does anyone know how much truth there is in this story?

You may actually be thinking of the foreword in Comic #9 "Up Against A Stonewall".

Anorak 12-23-2018 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie (Post 62702)
You may actually be thinking of the foreword in Comic #9 "Up Against A Stonewall".

I read that comic, but I couldn't see a foreword in it.

I think I read this years ago in some UK magazine like TV Zone or Starburst or something. I'm talking probably 20 years or longer, so my memory could be faulty...

chris-oates 12-16-2019 06:48 AM

Hmm. For me, Running for Honor is a middle of the road kind of episode for me. Don't get me wrong, I do like certain elements of it but do ultimately find it lacking. For one thing, I do find the pacing to be a little slow in parts and certain scenes seem to lead nowhere (the whole subplot with Tommy's kinda girlfriend, for instance).

A part of me loves the Sam and Al dialogue in this episode (some funny stuff, especially the bit about the tea (as an Englishman who drinks tea ALL the time it made it even funnier)), but another part of me hates it. I get that Al would logically be a little bigoted against gay people being in the Navy, but I do think they hammered it home a little too much at times to the point where I almost found myself disliking Al, and that's never a good thing, in my opinion.

The climax where Phillip nearly kills himself is very gripping. I really did feel for Phillip, and found the scene where the coach talks him out of it (by revealing the truth about his own sexuality) to be very moving.

Best scene? Has to be Al's apology at the end. His quiet acknowledgement that he was wrong was done just perfectly.

My rating. Average. A decent episode.


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