Old 10-17-2022, 08:27 AM   #1
Starbright
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Default A theory to solve the physical vs mind leaping problem

The revival has come down firmly on the side of outright leaping into someone else's body. Which is fine, the cannon on that topic from the original series and novels is confusing and contradictary as all hell.

Or is it?

I *think* I have a solution that can make both true.

The leap back is the key and would be the point when things changed from it being cleanly Sam"s mind inhabiting someone else's body to some sort of odd hybrid state where Sam's actual body began to be physically there enough to lend traits a leapee was missing.

Sam makes it home and then goes leaping a second time.

If you think about it, early in the process a confused and less trained leaper needs the physical body of the leapee to provide skills and strengthen them. Ray didn't know how to fight, now he does, for example.

So lets see if the theory holds and the rest of you try to confirm or refute it.

Sam Jo - conceived after leap back. (Was Will sterile?)
Sam walking without legs - after leap back
Sam swimming when it should not physically be possible for a chimp - after leap back.
Sam not being in the body of a Vampire when *maybee* the leapee was one (Sam adds humanity). - after leap back

There are three problem episodes I've identified so far.

First Trilogy Part 3 - is obviously after leap back when according to my theory Sam's physical body can now concentrate his physical substance into things his leapee physically lacks and needs

In part 3 of trilogy he seems impacted by Larry Stanton's heart issues but that may be because Sam is still only partially there and Larry is in really bad shape, bad enough that Sam's healthy body needs to sustain both leaper and leapee?

The other explanation may be that heart disease is not just a heart issue, it often involves the entire circulatory and even other body systems. Having Larry's damaged heart trying to run Sam's healthy body is as problematic as Sam's healthy heart trying to run Larry's body in this case.

There are two I'm concerned about being prior - and both involve Sam having normal eye sight when the leapee does not - although it could be argued that as a "spirit" inhabiting the body of someone without normal eyesight - he is seeing in some other way? A third eye if you will. Which I guess makes sense with the whole the leapee might where glasses but Sam usually doesn't thing.

Any other leaps prior to leap back that need Sam's physical body to manifest itself in sone way?

Any other leaps after that put us back in pure mind leap land?

And do we think a simo leap between Ben and Addison is comming?
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Old 10-25-2022, 08:57 AM   #2
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Wait I'm confused.

Addison tells Ben in episode 6 " The body you've leapt into hasn't worked out in years" while he is running in the tunnels to find Jason.

Isn't it true to say that while running he should be able to sustain it longer being younger and probably fitter than the character John Harvey.

From previous episodes with Sam it's established once Sam leaps his aura and physical attributes and health leap with him i.e 'Nam Vet with no legs or Pool Hall blues Black Magic tackles big goon in the back alley or Blind faith episode as a blind pianist.

We see in the boxing episode he says he has the strength and speed of the leapee in his body but he doesn't know how how to utilise it.

It seems they are playing loose with QL cannon as to what happens and whose body is being used.
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Old 10-25-2022, 10:52 AM   #3
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Old Quantum Leap: Sam leaps with his body.
New Quantum Leap: Ben leaps into other people's body.

It's going to limit what they can do.
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Old 10-25-2022, 10:13 PM   #4
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While it would explain the apparent absence of the waiting room concept, I'm not so sure Ben is leaping into the bodies of his hosts despite the direct comments considering that he didn't seem to be able to feel his missing 'female extras' in 'A Decent Proposal':
"I'm wearing things I don't usually wear."
"Have you thought about what you're missing?"

I'm thinking that instead it's a physical aura perhaps or Addison's logic is just incorrect.
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Old 10-26-2022, 02:32 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan View Post
While it would explain the apparent absence of the waiting room concept, I'm not so sure Ben is leaping into the bodies of his hosts despite the direct comments considering that he didn't seem to be able to feel his missing 'female extras' in 'A Decent Proposal':
"I'm wearing things I don't usually wear."
"Have you thought about what you're missing?"

I'm thinking that instead it's a physical aura perhaps or Addison's logic is just incorrect.
That's what I think also, his aura and attributes as a younger fitter male is leaping with him 💯
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Old 10-26-2022, 08:36 AM   #6
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I think time will tell (pun not intended) on this. So far there is no waiting room and they are strongly going with the in someone else's body concept.

In the original series every ep where Sam *has* to be physically there as himself to some extent was after he stepped into the Quantum Leap Accelerator for the *second* time following "the leap back".

That is the short version of my theory.

And since the original series and its novels give us plenty of earlier eps that support Sam leaping into someone else's body and the new series is also starting there - what I did was adapt a theory/solution I created to explain the inconsistancy during the original series run. I'm working somewhat off memory but um its a partially photographic one with its own unique brand of swiss cheese effect .

I need to go rewatch the entire original series again but I remember every scene in the original series that was pivotal in comming up with this back in the day
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Old 10-26-2022, 05:51 PM   #7
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In the original series every ep where Sam *has* to be physically there as himself to some extent was after he stepped into the Quantum Leap Accelerator for the *second* time following "the leap back".
Incorrect, it was supported that Sam's body was leaping right from season 1.

1. In season 1's 'The Color of Truth' Scott had inquired as to whether he should do an arthritic walk because Jesse was an older gentleman suffering from rheumatoid arthritis but was told not to because Sam still had his own physicality, and we see that on the screen as Sam both walks and runs with his own younger and fitter strides.

2. In season 2's 'Blind Faith' Sam leaped into a blind pianist but was well established to have maintained his own functioning sight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbright View Post
And since the original series and its novels give us plenty of earlier eps that support Sam leaping into someone else's body.
As far as I am aware the comics are not canon, more or less just official fanfiction and Ashley McConnal among the multiple novel authors actually writes Sam's soul leaping which is inconsistent with the show. See my show examples above.

I do enjoy most of the novels though even some of McConnal's, I have several of them.

Another reason I am not convinced that Ben is soul leaping into bodies is because it would be inconsistent that the whereabouts and care of his own body is not discussed.
McConnal covered that aspect in at least one of her soul leaping novels, that Sam's body was being maintained like a coma patient in between occupants.
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Old 10-26-2022, 06:05 PM   #8
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Quote from pilot script; Addison answering Ben's question of "And why am I trapped in someone else's body?"

"Because that's how the program works. You time travel into other people -- in this case, John Pierce. You're occupying the same time and space as him -- it's his body, but you're at the wheel. Which is why you're seeing his reflection and not your own."

Later, this is what Addison tells Ben in the tunnel:

"You're in someone else's body, their physiology comes into play. And something tells me John Pierce isn't doing workouts at home with Jane Fonda."

Basically, PQL was rebuilt from the ground up, programming included. Which means they could take 30 years of technological and scientific advancement and create an updated program that would get rid of the Waiting Room and allow the holograms in the IC to be seen by more than just Addison and etc.

Also, part of this PQL's mission was to develop a way for Ziggy to choose where & when the Leaper goes, and retrieve them afterward.

Ian in the premiere:
"Right before he Leaped, Ben uploaded a bunch of new code. Like, a whole new version of the quantum operating system."

"The past five years, we've been trying to figure out how to send someone to a single point in time and then bring them right back. To take the work of Sam Beckett and make it so that you don't get stuck in the past."

"But we were still in the simulation phase. We were years away from actual human testing. And yet, Ben just suddenly, magically writes a whole new operating system, gets into the machine, and then Leaps."
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Old 10-26-2022, 06:38 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by tina_als_girl View Post
Basically, PQL was rebuilt from the ground up, programming included. Which means they could take 30 years of technological and scientific advancement and create an updated program that would get rid of the Waiting Room and allow the holograms in the IC to be seen by more than just Addison and etc.
The entire team being able to view the holographic presence through a live feed does not justify eliminating the waiting room because this still doesn't answer where Ben's body went if he's leaping into other bodies or where the host's bodies are going if his body is physically switching places with him as Sam's was.
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Old 10-27-2022, 02:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tina_als_girl View Post
Basically, PQL was rebuilt from the ground up, programming included. Which means they could take 30 years of technological and scientific advancement and create an updated program that would get rid of the Waiting Room and allow the holograms in the IC to be seen by more than just Addison and etc.
Yes agreed, i would have expected them to add to the technology of 1995-1999 QL but I'm finding it hard to witness their applications of any advancements of the last 30 years into this new QL tech machine. As I have said on the "centre on" thread they cannot even do a S&L trace or make addisson appear/disappear in the IC LOL

I'd like to see more tech wizardry and visual aids and not just talk of "uploading code" and code this and code that because so far Al and his handlink could do far more than what 2022 QL team can do.
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Old 10-27-2022, 02:16 AM   #11
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As I quoted above, Ben practically re-wrote the entire program they'd already been working on for five years. Obviously it changed how things work even further than what they'd have already updated.

As for no Waiting Room, changing the program so that Leaping uses the Law of Superposition means Ben and his Leapees occupy the same space & time, but it's the Leapee's body being observed (the Law of Superposition has to do with the state of quantum matter before measurement), and Ben's soul steering said body. The Leapee's soul and Ben's body are phased to a slightly different dimension or something but are still present there; they're just not the parts in charge.
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Old 10-27-2022, 06:54 AM   #12
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I've yet to see any real tangible impact of the advancements over the last 30 years, all QL 2022 have shown us is an updated code which allows Ben to leap back past his lifetime and a theoretical leap into the future using gravitational navigation.

A major impact on the program tech would be to upgrade the retrieval program to Lothos level powers (48hr window before percentage drop) or specific leaps in time instead of random event.
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Old 10-28-2022, 02:44 PM   #13
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Default Mind/Body Leaping: Is This Really Still A Thing?!

Ok...I am so beyond tired of people still having a hard time wrapping their heads around the leaping lore. There were so many episodes in the original series that confirmed Sam's body is leaping - I mean, the waiting room alone should be enough to confirm that for god's sake - but still, people are confused?

What are we missing here? He leaped into a blind man, but was able to see. He leaped into a pregnant woman and her fetus supposedly disappeared from her womb and Sam was about to give birth. He leaped in to Vietnam vet who had lost his legs and Sam could very clearly walk. We even saw that in the mirror.

When he leaped into Samantha Stormer, he walked, sat and did other physical things like a man.

In the pool hall episode, he had 20/20 vision, while Black Magic did not.

HE FATHERED A FREAKING CHILD WITH A WOMAN ON A LEAP.

I mean...

ezgif.com-gif-maker.gif

What else do you guys need?



That fact that the waiting room had been completely ignored and the lore has been perverted by Addison saying that Ben is sharing a body with the leapees is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE. Two human beings cannot occupy the same space. It's just not possible.

Sam psychosynergizing with the leapees, I believe is something that 'Shock Theater' made possible. I believe that the shocks altered Sam's brain chemistry and made his 'ID' more malleable. He's always said that little bits of all the people he's lept into remian behind after he moves on, but before Shock Theater, Sam had a very strong mind and sense of self. It wasn't until after that he started taking on personality traits of these people, physical (which I honestly don't believe was actually harming Sam, he was just feeling what the leapee was feeling) and sometimes emotional.

Sometimes their personalities were so strong and they were so connected, like with Oswald, that he had a hard time breaking free, other times, it just came and went.

I'm actually curious to see how this plays out in the continuation. I'm getting really tired of Ben not seeming to care what happens to the leapees. That's one of the BIG problems I have with this new version. We knew why Sam created Quantum Leap. He wanted to help people. He wanted to change the world.

What are the new team's motives? I just don't trust them at all. They seem to not care at all about the Leapees and their circumstances except in as far as what needs to be done so Ben can move on. He's barely with this people not more than 24 hours per leap, so he barely gets to know or empathize with these people. That was one thing that the original show was masterful at. Tight, strong storytelling and well-developed characters that you cared about; that Sam cared about. If they hadn't had that, the show (as an anthology with new characters every week) would never have worked.

This time around, there is so much breakneck action going on during the leaps, that there is simply no time to breathe and get to know the people that Ben is interacting with. There's no way to become invested in the stories at all. There have been moments (episode 3 and 6), but they've been few and far between.

If Ben's team doesn't care about the leapees, then what the hell is the point?

"I know I shouldn't care, but.."

"Don't care, it's not my body..."

I would really like to know what their motives are with the project. It's obviously not to help people. Is it only to find Sam and bring him home, and everything else is just a means to an end?

I hope not, because Sam would never accept that, and he would NEVER want his life's work to be used in that way. It would cheapen and devalue everything he worked so hard for and everything he sacrificed.
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Old 10-28-2022, 06:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfandStorm
Two human beings cannot occupy the same space. It's just not possible.
It happened in A Swiftly Tilting Planet, the sequel to A Wrinkle in Time, but it was like the WHOLE PLOT.

Otherwise I agree with a lot of what you're saying.
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Old 11-01-2022, 12:08 PM   #15
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What are the new team's motives? I just don't trust them at all. They seem to not care at all about the Leapees and their circumstances except in as far as what needs to be done so Ben can move on. He's barely with this people not more than 24 hours per leap, so he barely gets to know or empathize with these people. That was one thing that the original show was masterful at. Tight, strong storytelling and well-developed characters that you cared about; that Sam cared about. If they hadn't had that, the show (as an anthology with new characters every week) would never have worked.

This time around, there is so much breakneck action going on during the leaps, that there is simply no time to breathe and get to know the people that Ben is interacting with. There's no way to become invested in the stories at all. There have been moments (episode 3 and 6), but they've been few and far between.
I'm liking the new series to a degree, but your comments above might be the closest thing I've seen so far that articulate that 'something' that feels like it's missing to me.

Sam got invested (often to a fault), and in general there was that feeling that Sam wasn't going anywhere until he put right what once went wrong.

While there's a lot to praise about the new series (I think the main cast are all doing a great job), it does feel a bit more like Ben is a time-travelling tourist. Even when the stakes are high, I don't get such a sense of danger. He does seem more detached, and having now remembered Addison is the love of his life, that pulls him out of being 'in the moment' of where he is even more.

Thinking about it as I've been typing, the amount of time we spend at the project probably plays a part in this. And I am enjoying the story set in the present for what it is, but as i've read others comment over the past few weeks, its dilution of the actual leap during the episodes might be slightly to blame for Ben's part of the story feeling a little thin at times.
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Old 12-13-2022, 04:17 AM   #16
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It seems to me that in the revival, it's actually a MERGING of the two bodies, rather than Ben being in another person's body. This would explain why he can sometimes be at an advantage by being in someone fitter/stronger, but not completely disadvantaged by being in someone less fit / weaker.
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