Interesting Observations/Facts/Questions about Quantum Leap

[wakkanne]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

Hypothetically if anyone should be enlisted to search for a lost Sam it should be the now freed Alia. In fact years ago I created a thread here on this forum suggesting an opening for such a storyline. It's still here and I dug it up recently.
http://www.quantumleap-alsplace.com/...ead.php?t=3529

I like it. Sounds cool. And I do some of my best writing after midnight! House is quiet and I'm alone with my thoughts. I too liked Alia and I actually had my own theories about the "evil Leaper" and explored some of it in a "what if" story, a fanfiction based on my fanfiction, if you will, written in 1995, but takes place in October 2013! Sam is 60 and has now been home for ten years. When he encounters Alia (who is still Leaping), she looks exactly the same as when he last saw her. She tells him that she's not from an alternate or evil dimension, but from a dark future, 2043, and she was a guinea pig in an experiment conducted by a project that used stolen technology from PQL. I suggested that she might have even been a descendant of Sam and that's why they chose her as their Leaper. Anyway, it was just a theory that I had fun playing around with at the time. It was hard to imagine Sam at 60 way back in 1995... But you know, I wasn't far off!

------------
Saturday, October 5, 2013
By: Suzanne Smiley
Written: August 19, 1995
Revised: July 3, 2013

Creak…Creak…Creak…
Sam Beckett leaned back in the rustic porch swing of his suburban home in Rio Rancho, New Mexico. The swing was old, but then so was he. Two months ago had been his sixtieth birthday.
A small wind picked up, scattering leaves around the front lawn, rustling his greying hair, which had once been brown.
It felt good, sitting on the porch, observing the neighborhood on such a cool autumn afternoon. Actually, it just felt good to be himself, to be home. It had been ten years since he’d Leaped home for good and eighteen years since he had first stepped into the accelerator, sending his secure world into oblivion...
That day, ten years ago, was August 8, 2003, the day he turned fifty. So what? Now he was sixty. After spending so many years trapped in the past, Sam had promised himself he wouldn’t reminisce too much about his own. And yet here he was, doing that exact thing.
The wind blew again, a little more harshly and a little more cold. Sam frowned and zipped his jacket up further, sliding his time weathered hands into his pockets, shivering a bit.
Well, he didn’t feel sixty. That much he could say. Of course, eight years had been lacerated from his life. Although, Sam knew he had accomplished more in those eight years that he had in these past ten.
That bothered him. He didn’t want to spend the last twenty or thirty years of his life rotting away. Sam hated to admit it, but he missed Leaping. He actually missed Leaping. He didn’t miss being away from his family and wondering if he would ever come home, but he missed the helping people part, the satisfaction he derived from a job well done... it just wasn’t the same as it used to be. Nothing ever was.
Sam frowned. Taking his hands out of his pockets, he reached for his guitar, which was propped up between its case and the porch railing.
“Damn the cold,” he mumbled as he began to strum a few chords. At first disorganized, but gradually the rhythm became more clear and focused. Sam began to sing softly, “Imagine there’s no heaven…”
Suddenly it was November 26, 1969, Thanksgiving Day. It was cool, like now. His little sister, Katie, was sitting on the porch swing next to him, on the family farm in Elk Ridge, Indiana, looking up at him expectantly.
“And John,” she’d said. “What’s John gonna do? He’s my favorite!” she added with a giggle.
Sam never told her, but he did sing her that song. “It’s easy if you try…”
It was a touching scene between him and his sister, but it had not ended well. Katie had run to their mother, crying. She was afraid that if Sam knew the future, then he must be telling the truth about Tom dying in Vietnam.
Sam stopped playing. Tom didn’t die in Vietnam. That was because in one of his Leaps, Sam had saved his brother. So, Tom Beckett didn’t die.
Tom was still living in Indiana with his wife, Angie. He’d had two kids and three grandkids because of his little brother.
It really messes with your mind...
------------

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Originally Posted by blue enigma

This is one plausible scenario. However, for all we know she's in the same boat as Sam and can't help herself either. I'm not a fan of the evil leaper story line and I really hate the last one in the trilogy so I don't rewatch. But I remember questioning how Ziggy could possibly know that Alia was free. It's possible she died and can help Sam in the same way Stawpah helped Pete and Tonchi and indirectly Sam in 'Mirror Image'.

Agreed, while I did enjoy the Evil Leapers I felt the third in the trilogy took it too far with making Zoey a leaper. Because I am such a sucker for mush I have come to be able to watch it up until after Sam rescues screaming Alia from the wall and comforts her in his arms.

Also I have recently entertained that Alia could have been killed by that bullet and by "free" it meant death. This is one of my favorite angles in Knights of the Morningstar, how Alia pondered actually trying to get Sam to kill her to free herself. A dead Alia could still take on the task of finding Sam if in fact she ended up as Stawpah did.

Originally Posted by Wakkanne

Sam is 60 and has now been home for ten years. When he encounters Alia (who is still Leaping), she looks exactly the same as when he last saw her. She tells him that she's not from an alternate or evil dimension, but from a dark future, 2043, and she was a guinea pig in an experiment conducted by a project that used stolen technology from PQL. I suggested that she might have even been a descendant of Sam and that's why they chose her as their Leaper. Anyway, it was just a theory that I had fun playing around with at the time. It was hard to imagine Sam at 60 way back in 1995... But you know, I wasn't far off!

Dang, that's insane though honestly Alia doesn't fit as Sam's descendent or rather that doesn't fit as a reason for her to have been their chosen Leaper. It's explained that Zoey was intended but she owed Alia (for what they don't reveal) so insisted they go with her.

If you think 60 is hard to picture Sam at try 80-something! My best friend wrote an amazing fanfic about how after Al passes away his spirit wondered until it's able to bring an 80-something year old Sam home. He's reunited with Donna and Beth and is able to meet his children and grandchildren. Donna had been impregnated during The Leap Back with a daughter we named Chelsea after Scott's daughter (we did this whole storyline around that idea though we never actually got to write the birth). Soon after however after making love to Donna one last time he passes away in his sleep and is reunited with Al. It had been inspired by the song Fate's Wide Wheel, the line which pleads for "one final leap" earning the fic it's title. I assisted in writing his death (though I am not sure I am pleased with that writing anymore).
She even wrote out the family tree where she named and gave personalities to Al's four daughters and even had some of the Calavicci line marry into the Beckett line.

[wakkanne]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

Dang, that's insane though honestly Alia doesn't fit as Sam's descendent or rather that doesn't fit as a reason for her to have been their chosen Leaper. It's explained that Zoey was intended but she owed Alia (for what they don't reveal) so insisted they go with her.

Like I said, it was entirely theoretical and a fanfiction to my fanfiction, so not "cannon" to my series at all. It was fun to play around with, and interesting since the events took place less than a month from now. However, even so, my current actual "cannon to my series" stories are more interesting to me right now. I'm tempted to cut to and finish my "Leaping Sam home story" that I've entitled, "Driven By An Unknown Force", but then I would be doing the same thing I did back in high school... skipping ahead and not finishing the stories that came before it. I need to finish the early ones so that everyone can enjoy reading them other than me!

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

If you think 60 is hard to picture Sam at try 80-something! My best friend wrote an amazing fanfic about how after Al passes away his spirit wondered until it's able to bring an 80-something year old Sam home. He's reunited with Donna and Beth and is able to meet his children and grandchildren. Donna had been impregnated during The Leap Back with a daughter we named Chelsea after Scott's daughter (we did this whole storyline around that idea though we never actually got to write the birth). Soon after however after making love to Donna one last time he passes away in his sleep and is reunited with Al. It had been inspired by the song Fate's Wide Wheel, the line which pleads for "one final leap" earning the fic it's title. I assisted in writing his death (though I am not sure I am pleased with that writing anymore).
She even wrote out the family tree where she named and gave personalities to Al's four daughters and even had some of the Calavicci line marry into the Beckett line.

Wow, that sounds powerful and amazing, but I don't know if I could ever read through that. I'd probably be bawling the entire time!

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Back then I felt the same, that the idea was so tragic it would be tough to handle. That and it begins with him fulfilling a final leap in which he needed to convince the Leapee's wife to see a doctor because her cancer was returning(but if she saw a doctor right away she could beat it again). Though I have gotten better now I was once quite the pathophobic which is fear of disease. What I enjoyed most though was how she had written just for me a mush scene where the wife is terrified to think that her cancer had returned and Sam comforts her.

[Lightning McQueenie]

OK, I have to say I totally disagree with the idea that Alia is dead. For one thing, that would mean Zoe succeeded in her leap and would have leapt away immediately afterwards, not have her asking Thames where she went and then settling for the consolation prize of killing Sam. Also, it would totally go against the basic premise of the show, which is doing good and good triumphing over evil. There is no way any writer of the show would allow that.

The reason Ziggy knew that Alia was free was because of the way she leapt - since she leapt blue instead of red, that means that Ziggy could tell she was being leapt by the good force and not the evil force. The only way the good force could leap her away was because she had been released from the evil force, thus freed.

[MichelleD]

Originally Posted by wakkanne

I like it. Sounds cool. And I do some of my best writing after midnight! House is quiet and I'm alone with my thoughts. I too liked Alia and I actually had my own theories about the "evil Leaper" and explored some of it in a "what if" story, a fanfiction based on my fanfiction, if you will, written in 1995, but takes place in October 2013! Sam is 60 and has now been home for ten years. When he encounters Alia (who is still Leaping), she looks exactly the same as when he last saw her. She tells him that she's not from an alternate or evil dimension, but from a dark future, 2043, and she was a guinea pig in an experiment conducted by a project that used stolen technology from PQL. I suggested that she might have even been a descendant of Sam and that's why they chose her as their Leaper. Anyway, it was just a theory that I had fun playing around with at the time. It was hard to imagine Sam at 60 way back in 1995... But you know, I wasn't far off!

------------
Saturday, October 5, 2013
By: Suzanne Smiley
Written: August 19, 1995
Revised: July 3, 2013

Creak…Creak…Creak…
Sam Beckett leaned back in the rustic porch swing of his suburban home in Rio Rancho, New Mexico. The swing was old, but then so was he. Two months ago had been his sixtieth birthday.
A small wind picked up, scattering leaves around the front lawn, rustling his greying hair, which had once been brown.
It felt good, sitting on the porch, observing the neighborhood on such a cool autumn afternoon. Actually, it just felt good to be himself, to be home. It had been ten years since he’d Leaped home for good and eighteen years since he had first stepped into the accelerator, sending his secure world into oblivion...
That day, ten years ago, was August 8, 2003, the day he turned fifty. So what? Now he was sixty. After spending so many years trapped in the past, Sam had promised himself he wouldn’t reminisce too much about his own. And yet here he was, doing that exact thing.
The wind blew again, a little more harshly and a little more cold. Sam frowned and zipped his jacket up further, sliding his time weathered hands into his pockets, shivering a bit.
Well, he didn’t feel sixty. That much he could say. Of course, eight years had been lacerated from his life. Although, Sam knew he had accomplished more in those eight years that he had in these past ten.
That bothered him. He didn’t want to spend the last twenty or thirty years of his life rotting away. Sam hated to admit it, but he missed Leaping. He actually missed Leaping. He didn’t miss being away from his family and wondering if he would ever come home, but he missed the helping people part, the satisfaction he derived from a job well done... it just wasn’t the same as it used to be. Nothing ever was.
Sam frowned. Taking his hands out of his pockets, he reached for his guitar, which was propped up between its case and the porch railing.
“Damn the cold,” he mumbled as he began to strum a few chords. At first disorganized, but gradually the rhythm became more clear and focused. Sam began to sing softly, “Imagine there’s no heaven…”
Suddenly it was November 26, 1969, Thanksgiving Day. It was cool, like now. His little sister, Katie, was sitting on the porch swing next to him, on the family farm in Elk Ridge, Indiana, looking up at him expectantly.
“And John,” she’d said. “What’s John gonna do? He’s my favorite!” she added with a giggle.
Sam never told her, but he did sing her that song. “It’s easy if you try…”
It was a touching scene between him and his sister, but it had not ended well. Katie had run to their mother, crying. She was afraid that if Sam knew the future, then he must be telling the truth about Tom dying in Vietnam.
Sam stopped playing. Tom didn’t die in Vietnam. That was because in one of his Leaps, Sam had saved his brother. So, Tom Beckett didn’t die.
Tom was still living in Indiana with his wife, Angie. He’d had two kids and three grandkids because of his little brother.
It really messes with your mind...
------------

Oh, I like this Suzanne! Very imaginative and a bit eerie too. It really does make you think about what Sam might have had to deal with if he'd made it home after years of Leaping. The Leap Home is such a great episode too.

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie

OK, I have to say I totally disagree with the idea that Alia is dead. For one thing, that would mean Zoe succeeded in her leap and would have leapt away immediately afterwards

Let's not forget the the Evil Project managed to perfect their leaping and could control when and into whom they go as well as being able to retrieve their leapers. Also remember that there was a 48 hour window for Zoey's leap. She needed to be brought back within that time limit whether she succeeded or not or else be stuck in random leap mode as Sam is.
Their leaping is not based on success because they control it. In the first Evil Leapers episode both Alia and Zoey were retrieved and punished after failing.
It's actually implied to be unclear if even Sam's leaping is based on success. Catch a Falling Star and Leap for Lisa are episodes in which they seem to think it's not.

@MichelleD: Read her "Oh Boy" beginnings in the 'DvD Sets With All The Music' thread, she really is terrific.
I have my own beginning there as well which needs work in itself let alone the entire fanfiction be finished. She's given me a more believable approach to my opening.

[wakkanne]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

@MichelleD: Read her "Oh Boy" beginnings in the 'DvD Sets With All The Music' thread, she really is terrific.
I have my own beginning there as well which needs work in itself let alone the entire fanfiction be finished. She's given me a more believable approach to my opening.

Aw, shucks...

[Lightning McQueenie]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

Let's not forget the the Evil Project managed to perfect their leaping and could control when and into whom they go as well as being able to retrieve their leapers. Also remember that there was a 48 hour window for Zoey's leap. She needed to be brought back within that time limit whether she succeeded or not or else be stuck in random leap mode as Sam is.
Their leaping is not based on success because they control it. In the first Evil Leapers episode both Alia and Zoey were retrieved and punished after failing.
It's actually implied to be unclear if even Sam's leaping is based on success. Catch a Falling Star and Leap for Lisa are episodes in which they seem to think it's not.

Sorry but this is also incorrect.

Zoe: Now Thames! Don't forget, I am here on borrowed time.

Thames: You are here until you do what you have been sent here to do...

Zoe: I have a 48 hour window after my first leap to get home. After that, after every leap, the percentage drops!

So even though the Evil Project has more control over the leaping, the leapers still can not leap until the mission has been completed. That's why Zoe was so worried and kept hurrying Thames, she knew that if she didn't complete the mission within the 48 hours she would not be able to leap and so could be lost in time like Alia and Sam were.

Mind you, the condition that the mission needs to be completed does NOT mean that the mission has to be a success. In fact, all three times we see a leaper from their project leap out, it's after they have FAILED - the first time Alia failed to kill Sam, the second time Alia failed to ensure that Sam/Arnold would end up dead, and finally the third time is when Zoe has failed to kill Alia and has been shot by Sam, thereby making it impossible for her to attempt to kill Sam. So you are correct that their leaping isn't based on success, but (and I don't think Diane McBride would appreciate me using her words in this context, but too bad) the important thing is that they try. They are never able to leap until they either succeed or get to a point where there is no possibility of success.

Also, just because "fate worse than death" awaits them if they fail, does not necessarily mean they get leapt back to their project - in fact, it's well known that they CAN'T get Alia back, so how could they torture her there. It must just be that Lothos leaps them to a place and time where they end up tortured...

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Alright, I admit my mistake in understanding the condition of Zoey's leap, I don't watch Revenge as much because while I enjoy the evil leapers I felt they took it too far making Zoey a leaper.

I however don't believe success was vital to how immediate her leap out was. This is why:

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie

Mind you, the condition that the mission needs to be completed does NOT mean that the mission has to be a success...They are never able to leap until they either succeed or get to a point where there is no possibility of success.

In Deliver Us from Evil, they were leaped out immediately upon failure. In Return Of The Evil Leaper, Zoey demanded Alia's removal though there could have still been room for success. When Sam leaped out the real Arnold would have returned where he'd be accessible by Alia for termination. It's made clear that Arnold was her assignment not Sam as it's directly revealed that they were initially unaware that the Arnold they were dealing with was in fact Sam.
As I said, their leaps are controlled, they can be extracted whenever desired. The reason Zoey probably wasn't immediately was because Alia's leap out had perplexed the Evil Project. In between Alia's leap out and Zoey catching the second bullet Thames had been pressing buttons on his handlink frantically trying to figure out what had happened to Alia. Thus not giving the command as Zoey did in the previous episode to have Zoey extracted. Then she was killed (if memory serves) thus that is probably what ended up triggering the leap.
In fact since they wouldn't be able to lock on to Alia from that point on, they probably never knew whether she'd caught that bullet or not thus nor if Zoey succeeded or failed.

Originally Posted by Lighning McQueenie

does not necessarily mean they get leapt back to their project - in fact, it's well known that they CAN'T get Alia back...

O_o It is? Wait, are you referring to their not being able to retrieve her after she leaped out in Revenge?

[Donofrio_QLTD]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

Alright, I admit my mistake in understanding the condition of Zoey's leap, I don't watch Revenge as much because while I enjoy the evil leapers I felt they took it too far making Zoey a leaper.

I however don't believe success was vital to how immediate her leap out was. This is why:



In Deliver Us from Evil, they were leaped out immediately upon failure. In Return Of The Evil Leaper, Zoey demanded Alia's removal though there could have still been room for success. When Sam leaped out the real Arnold would have returned where he'd be accessible by Alia for termination. It's made clear that Arnold was her assignment not Sam as it's directly revealed that they were initially unaware that the Arnold they were dealing with was in fact Sam.
As I said, their leaps are controlled, they can be extracted whenever desired. The reason Zoey probably wasn't immediately was because Alia's leap out had perplexed the Evil Project. In between Alia's leap out and Zoey catching the second bullet Thames had been pressing buttons on his handlink frantically trying to figure out what had happened to Alia. Thus not giving the command as Zoey did in the previous episode to have Zoey extracted. Then she was killed (if memory serves) thus that is probably what ended up triggering the leap.
In fact since they wouldn't be able to lock on to Alia from that point on, they probably never knew whether she'd caught that bullet or not thus nor if Zoey succeeded or failed.



O_o It is? Wait, are you referring to their not being able to retrieve her after she leaped out in Revenge?

I guess that what he/she meant was that Alia was lost in time from the beginning, just as Sam was, and that's why they couldn't get her back.

By the way, I don't believe Alia is dead, either. She just went on and lived a normal life away from Zoey and Lothos and perhaps even from the leaps themselves. That's why she was free.

[Sam Beckett Fan]

I'm afraid I'm still lost, they retrieved Alia after every leap thus whether it's their project whatever that may be or not in which they return her, they do.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding the notion however, what is meant by unable to get her back? Unless it was referring to after her leap out in Revenge, at which point, yeah they were unable to retrieve her as she had been disconnected from them.

Not long ago I discussed a theory I had come up with while reading Knights of the Morningstar with my best friend. Upon noticing that Alia is quite a bit better than Sam at thinking on her feet and being 'in-character' paired with her controlled leaping it occurred to me that perhaps she is prepared for her role before she is sent out. This does fit with Zoey skipping the introduction of her host in Return of the Evil Leaper, right to the assignment. It's pretty harmless to wait to dish out the assignment upon arrival. In fact It seems quite a bit like Lothos doesn't know himself much like Ziggy.

The way Alia's leaping was explained in Knights of the Morningstar doesn't quite fit (I explain this in it's thread) but I like the idea and that she obviously paid careful attention to Return of the Evil Leaper and put little details together. It was very well thought out.

[samnal]

[quote=wakkanne;60432]Is that true that Deborah regretted having Sam married to Donna? It would explain a lot.
I interviewed Deborah for an online local fan blog about 20 years ago. She said and I quote...she was my character, wasn't she? Not Don's not anyone elses. She was not crazy about Leap Back. I did the interview just after it was aired. There was much more they could have done and I do not include Donna in any of my fic unless she is some kind of post leap where she was never in Sam's life after he was dumped by her. Or she is a shrew. IMHO she was selfish, and a terrible person and the Sam that married her was a different person than the one that had a heart and put that into the work he had to do. Debra did not write a character who would want to sacrifice Al for her having Sam with her. I have a lovely copy of Leap Back. I cut Donna totally out of it.

[blue enigma]

Originally Posted by wakkanne

------------
Saturday, October 5, 2013
By: Suzanne Smiley
Written: August 19, 1995
Revised: July 3, 2013

Creak…Creak…Creak…
Sam Beckett leaned back in the rustic porch swing of his suburban home in Rio Rancho, New Mexico. The swing was old, but then so was he. Two months ago had been his sixtieth birthday.
A small wind picked up, scattering leaves around the front lawn, rustling his greying hair, which had once been brown.
It felt good, sitting on the porch, observing the neighborhood on such a cool autumn afternoon. Actually, it just felt good to be himself, to be home. It had been ten years since he’d Leaped home for good and eighteen years since he had first stepped into the accelerator, sending his secure world into oblivion...
That day, ten years ago, was August 8, 2003, the day he turned fifty. So what? Now he was sixty. After spending so many years trapped in the past, Sam had promised himself he wouldn’t reminisce too much about his own. And yet here he was, doing that exact thing.
The wind blew again, a little more harshly and a little more cold. Sam frowned and zipped his jacket up further, sliding his time weathered hands into his pockets, shivering a bit.
Well, he didn’t feel sixty. That much he could say. Of course, eight years had been lacerated from his life. Although, Sam knew he had accomplished more in those eight years that he had in these past ten.
That bothered him. He didn’t want to spend the last twenty or thirty years of his life rotting away. Sam hated to admit it, but he missed Leaping. He actually missed Leaping. He didn’t miss being away from his family and wondering if he would ever come home, but he missed the helping people part, the satisfaction he derived from a job well done... it just wasn’t the same as it used to be. Nothing ever was.
Sam frowned. Taking his hands out of his pockets, he reached for his guitar, which was propped up between its case and the porch railing.
“Damn the cold,” he mumbled as he began to strum a few chords. At first disorganized, but gradually the rhythm became more clear and focused. Sam began to sing softly, “Imagine there’s no heaven…”
Suddenly it was November 26, 1969, Thanksgiving Day. It was cool, like now. His little sister, Katie, was sitting on the porch swing next to him, on the family farm in Elk Ridge, Indiana, looking up at him expectantly.
“And John,” she’d said. “What’s John gonna do? He’s my favorite!” she added with a giggle.
Sam never told her, but he did sing her that song. “It’s easy if you try…”
It was a touching scene between him and his sister, but it had not ended well. Katie had run to their mother, crying. She was afraid that if Sam knew the future, then he must be telling the truth about Tom dying in Vietnam.
Sam stopped playing. Tom didn’t die in Vietnam. That was because in one of his Leaps, Sam had saved his brother. So, Tom Beckett didn’t die.
Tom was still living in Indiana with his wife, Angie. He’d had two kids and three grandkids because of his little brother.
It really messes with your mind...
------------

This is a really lovely piece of writing, wakkanne, and you have a nice handle on Sam's character. I look forward to reading your series once you're ready to post them.

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Originally Posted by samnal

Debra did not write a character who would want to sacrifice Al for her having Sam with her.

When in hysterics one can tend to speak impulsively words or implications that they don't intend. Certainly in her rational mind Donna wouldn't dare allow Al to be killed. She ended up sending Sam on his way didn't she? She barely pursued the argument.

Think about it, she waited more patiently than anyone is expected to for a husband whom has even less of a way back to her than Al did to Beth from Vietnam.
Her prayers are answered and he returns only to once again end up bound for the place which promises no return less than 24 hours later. Wouldn't that upset you?

To be fair Sam as well was selfish in ensuring she married him since he in fact justified the fear of abandonment which tore her from him in the initial timeline.
I'd say it's Donna who is the selfless (or I suppose you could say stupid) spouse to wait so patiently for a husband who roams through time with no memory of her and being quite intament with several other woman but knows that he is fulfilling a special and great purpose by doing do.

[Lightning McQueenie]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

I'm afraid I'm still lost, they retrieved Alia after every leap.

There is not a single piece of evidence to support this. In fact, Zoe goads Alia to kill Sam in Deliver Us From Evil because "this could be the leap that sends you home, Alia... Home". It's pretty obvious that Alia was in fact trapped in time like Sam was. Yes Lothos could control when the leapers leap, and even where to, but he was NOT able to bring them home (unless the leaper completes their first mission within 48 hours).

[blue enigma]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

To be fair Sam as well was selfish in ensuring she married him since he in fact justified the fear of abandonment which tore her from him in the initial timeline.

I'd say it's Donna who is the selfless (or I suppose you could say stupid) spouse to wait so patiently for a husband who roams through time with no memory of her and being quite intament with several other woman but knows that he is fulfilling a special and great purpose by doing do.

Yeah, this is the way I see it.

I really do hate this story arc in case I haven't made that entirely obvious already, lol. Though it's completely understandable it's also an extremely selfish move on Sam's part. It's unrealistic that one meeting with her father would change her and alleviate her fears so drastically, and then of course Sam himself turns around and brings them right to the surface again.

Also I think both writers could have done a better job with Donna as a character. She's pretty two-dimensional in both episodes, and is really just there as a device for creating extra angst for Sam in The Leap Back [and he doesn't even seem particularly upset that he has to leave her again -- which to be fair is probably because the episode is so rushed]. I really admire writers like Melanie Rawn in Knights of the Morningstar and Sandy Hall, Sharon Wisdom and Michelle Agnew in Hope and Glory (Oh Boy IV) who were able to flesh out her character so beautifully with so little to go on.

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Originally Posted by Lightning Mcqueenie

In fact, Zoe goads Alia to kill Sam in Deliver Us From Evil because "this could be the leap that sends you home, Alia... Home".

Actually this is an inconsistency that has me stumped which I also explain in the Evil Leapers thread. Which brings me to this.

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie

There is not a single piece of evidence to support this.

There are in fact several in the second two episodes.
Return of the Evil Leaper.
The scene in Alia's dorm after they discover Sam's presence in the leap.
"Lothos isn't pleased with your prior work concerning Dr. Beckett."
"Then why did he send me here?"

Alia in the next scene tells Sam that they tortured her, thus she was returned somewhere which is involved with her project.

Then at the end while Sam is holding on to her but is waiting for those last few percentile to trigger his leap out, Zoey growls:
"Lothos, pull Alia out!"

A few moments prior while still in the car, Sam is trying to explain leaping Alia with him to Al.
"if I don't Zoey will tell Lothos and he'll leap her out, I'll lose her forever."
He can't possibly know of course but he too seemed to take the hint from her having been tortured.

Revenge; after Alia's leap out to her freedom:
"She leaped!"
"She didn't leap back!"

Originally Posted by Blue Enigma

I really admire writers like Melanie Rawn in Knights of the Morningstar and Sandy Hall, Sharon Wisdom and Michelle Agnew in Hope and Glory (Oh Boy IV) who were able to flesh out her character so beautifully with so little to go on.

Melanie Rawn is quite possibly the best of the official novel authors with Carol Davis (w/Esther D. Reese) who wrote Mirror's Edge right along side. Mirror's Edge beautifully explores through Tom the question of how in the right it is for Sam not to remember Donna and how he'd abandoned her as well as his regrets for not being a better husband to her. This novel portrays Donna in exactly the way Scott imagines her character.
I wonder if Scott or Dean have read any of the books.

Now Hope and Glory I have not heard of. What is this?

[blue enigma]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

Melanie Rawn is quite possibly the best of the official novel authors with Carol Davis (w/Esther D. Reese) who wrote Mirror's Edge right along side. Mirror's Edge beautifully explores through Tom the question of how in the right it is for Sam not to remember Donna and how he'd abandoned her as well as his regrets for not being a better husband to her. This novel portrays Donna in exactly the way Scott imagines her character.
I wonder if Scott or Dean have read any of the books.

Now Hope and Glory I have not heard of. What is this?

Yes, you had mentioned that Carol fleshed out Donna's character very well. I haven't read either of her novels yet.

I really loved L. Elizabeth Storm's novels. Pulitzer is my favorite so far, and Foreknowledge by Chris DeFilippis is a close second.

Hope and Glory is the fanzine Oh Boy IV. A lot of the fanzines are a collection of stories, but a few of them are novels. Oh Boy IV is a novel called Hope and Glory. It's huge. 2 volumes, over 400 pages. It's a prequel, but in the changed timeline where Sam has already made changes like saving his brother, Donna marrying him, then continues with Sam stepping into the accelerator and leaping, and then his coming home. It's long but very very good. It was written before the series ended so it ignores 'Mirror Image' and pretty much most of Season 5. I was able to borrow this one from someone so I didn't need to purchase it. Because it's so large it's more expensive.

[Sam Beckett Fan]

My best friend read ForeKnowledge and said it was good. The idea of it sounds pretty intriguing. Perhaps I will give it a try but at the moment I have three other novels on their way to me via Amazon. Pulitzer and Obsessions which I have already read (borrowed the first time) but really enjoy and one I have not, Double or Nothing.

Honor and Glory sounds very interesting, how can I get a copy of this fanzine?

[blue enigma]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

Honor and Glory sounds very interesting, how can I get a copy of this fanzine?

I'm not sure if it's available on eBay anymore but you could try there. It might be cheaper. Agent with Style has it but it's expensive. Here's the link to their website: http://www.agentwithstyle.com/. I bought a couple of the smaller, cheaper zines from them.

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Wonderful thank you.
Correction; I am now waiting for two novels in the mail. They only shipped two days ago but Double or Nothing has already arrived. Impressive.

[samnal]

[quote=Sam Beckett Fan;60523]When in hysterics one can tend to speak impulsively words or implications that they don't intend. Certainly in her rational mind Donna wouldn't dare allow Al to be killed. She ended up sending Sam on his way didn't she? She barely pursued the argument.
I respect what you say. A person who is out of her mind - well, she wants to keep Sam home. With her. When she said, "I don't care," she literally tossed Sam's concern about Al in his face and ended any sane thought I had about the character. And I loved your story, it was very very good. I have quite a bit of stuff up on fanfiction.net and archiveofourown which I'm proud of - you are a unique writer and I thank God we are still alive as a fandom. If anyone could convince me to accept a Donna Ellissee or whatever in Sam's life, I'm sure you guys can. She is not in my stories. If you know my name as a writer then you know who I have Sam with and that is always my be all and end all.

[samnal]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

Wonderful thank you.
Correction; I am now waiting for two novels in the mail. They only shipped two days ago but Double or Nothing has already arrived. Impressive.

Are these new zines or old zines/ I would be interested in buying them -- can you privately email me the details? buster1033@aol.com

[Lightning McQueenie]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

Actually this is an inconsistency that has me stumped which I also explain in the Evil Leapers thread. Which brings me to this.


There are in fact several in the second two episodes.
Return of the Evil Leaper.
The scene in Alia's dorm after they discover Sam's presence in the leap.
"Lothos isn't pleased with your prior work concerning Dr. Beckett."
"Then why did he send me here?"

Alia in the next scene tells Sam that they tortured her, thus she was returned somewhere which is involved with her project.

Then at the end while Sam is holding on to her but is waiting for those last few percentile to trigger his leap out, Zoey growls:
"Lothos, pull Alia out!"

A few moments prior while still in the car, Sam is trying to explain leaping Alia with him to Al.
"if I don't Zoey will tell Lothos and he'll leap her out, I'll lose her forever."
He can't possibly know of course but he too seemed to take the hint from her having been tortured.

Revenge; after Alia's leap out to her freedom:
"She leaped!"
"She didn't leap back!"

"Why did he send me here?"

Lothos can control when a leap occurs and can also control where to, but can NOT leap them home if they have been gone for too long, as Alia was.

If Alia was tortured, it was by Lothos putting her in a place and point in time where she could be tortured. For example, she could have been leapt into someone being held hostage and tortured by terrorists - that easily could be considered "worse than death".

"Lothos, pull Alia out."
Like I said, Lothos can control when a leaper leaps, and can put them where he wants, he just can't bring her home.

"If Zoe finds out she'll tell Lothos and he'll leap her out and I'll lose her forever"
Sam realises that Lothos has enough control to leap her away from him (not necessarily back to their project) and also realises that his encounter with her was just the "random event theory - a fantastic stroke of luck", so if Lothos leaps her away the chances of their crossing paths again would be slim to none.

"She didn't leap back"
Zoe obviously realised that her shooting Alia/Angel had no effect, she and Thames realised Alia must have leapt - let's remember that Zoe and Alia had NOT touched, so there's a good chance that they would only be seeing each other's hosts' auras (i.e. Zoe seeing Alia as Angel and Alia seeing Zoe as Myers) and so would not actually see the leap effect. When they realised Alia had leapt, they weren't sure if she'd just been replaced by the real Angel, or just pulled out long enough for the blank aura to absorb the bullet and have her return. So Zoe saying "She didn't leap back" was really her confirming with Thames that Alia didn't leap back into Angel.