Old 07-11-2007, 07:37 AM   #1
ian2k6
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when al is unable to provide proof that sam is time-travelling, couldnt he just take a photo or video of him in the past?
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:46 AM   #2
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when al is unable to provide proof that sam is time-travelling, couldnt he just take a photo or video of him in the past?
Presumably because the hologram in the Imaging Chamber is tuned to their brainwaves (pilot ep "Everything around you is a hologram to me," etc) any picture taken in the Imaging Chamber would just show the empty chamber with Al standing in isolation.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:06 AM   #3
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Sam should have used the trick from The Leap Back and just mailed a letter to the committee via western union or certified mail kind of like they also did in Back to the Future Part II.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:31 PM   #4
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Sam should have used the trick from The Leap Back and just mailed a letter to the committee via western union or certified mail kind of like they also did in Back to the Future Part II.
That would not have worked eaither because they would just accuse Sam of falsifying the date on the envelope just like in the novel Random Measures where its Sam's soul leaping so they they try to prove that Sam is not in his body by taking brainwave scans of eh visitors but the committee only responded by accusing them of falsifying. I know the novels are not canon but its a really good concept.

By season two though Al could use Donna as living proof, saying Sam was not married before and now he is, how do you explain that? However since no one but Al, Sam and Ziggy can remember all timelines past and changed ones, it may be damn near impossible to produce evidence they can prove is real.
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Old 07-11-2007, 02:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaper1
Presumably because the hologram in the Imaging Chamber is tuned to their brainwaves (pilot ep "Everything around you is a hologram to me," etc) any picture taken in the Imaging Chamber would just show the empty chamber with Al standing in isolation.
That's a great explanation... I was going to say that, too! It would almost seem , though, like he could record audio... it must be weird for Al to hear and see everything "in his head" only.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:55 PM   #6
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Just like at the end of Honeymoon Express when the change happened. Only Al was aware of it. No one else. If you'd asked any of the committee, they'd say she was ALWAYS the one on the committee.

Same thing with Donna. Al the only one (other than Ziggy) that would be able to say that Donna wasn't his wife and then was because of leaping. There is the concept that until the Leap Back, even Sam wouldn't have known and that might explain the realization that he was married (not just the Swiss Cheese.) It may actually be that until Sam was in his "own time" he had the same Sam memories of his past as he had in the accelerator. That coming back to the project allowed time to 'catch up' to him.

He would have likely remembered (well as far as his Swiss Cheese would allow) the changes he made during the leaps prior to Leap Back...but until then, it was only a MAYBE that Star Crossed changed his life.

So...after the concept changed that anyone touching Al could magically see Sam (or at least the aura he was in...and could hear his words as I recall was eventually a part of that...that it could see and hear Sam to question him) then it would be possible for the committee to question him.

The only other "proof" would have been from the government's own transcripts of the drugged interagation of Max Stoddard in Star Bright. They still existed, didn't they? That could potentially be used as proff.

As to the letter potential. A letter would have to be sent not to the project but have been put in a locked box that had been SHOWN to have been sealed at the time that Sam was in the past. Then only have the committee members themselves open it. With the information that only Sam could have put in the message...it might prove he was leaping in time.

HMMMMM....could this stuff be fodder for another fanfic? I need to get writing.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:36 PM   #7
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Yeah like I said I don't think there is a way to produce evidence that they can prove is real.
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Old 07-13-2007, 02:41 PM   #8
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Actually, I gave 3 possible ways to provide "proff" he was leaping.

1. The concept of interviewing him (after it was established in the show that a person could see and hear Sam when touching Al...that changed from the earliest episodes to later episodes. Maybe Ziggy became more adept or there were software upgrades.)

2. The Max Stoddard tapes. They were in the Government's own archives and thus could not have been tampered with by the project.

3. The letter idea WOULD work with the contraints I mentioned (e.g. putting into a lockbox in the past that was guaranteed (Price Waterhouse anyone?) to have stayed sealed until the committee opened it themselves.) Again, no way for the project to "tamper" with the evidence.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:05 PM   #9
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I did think of the Imaging chamber, they could bring the comittee in like they did Katie Mcbane.
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:51 PM   #10
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Perhaps they did. I don't recall any episodes after Shock Theatre where the Committee was said to be threatening to pull the plug. Perhaps Al took one or two of the members into the Chamber and let them see Sam. That would certainly shut them up and keep them funding the billions of dollars, even if they could only see him but not hear him, right?
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Old 07-16-2007, 05:08 PM   #11
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Perhaps they did. I don't recall any episodes after Shock Theatre where the Committee was said to be threatening to pull the plug. Perhaps Al took one or two of the members into the Chamber and let them see Sam. That would certainly shut them up and keep them funding the billions of dollars, even if they could only see him but not hear him, right?
But surely they would see the leapees aura and not Sam as Sam?
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Old 07-16-2007, 05:16 PM   #12
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But surely they would see the leapees aura and not Sam as Sam?
Yeah that's right, I didn't think of that. :P
But If they take someone in after Raped so that the update has been made than maybe Al can get him to say something Sam like he did in LHO and the committe could not argue that its not Sam.
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Old 07-16-2007, 05:54 PM   #13
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Yeah...interview him. If he knows things that only Sam would know. Questions that Al COULDN'T have coached him on before. Then seeing him in the aura would just prove the rest of the story.

Personally, I think the lockbox one would be even more airtight. How do you get a letter from the past that answers the exact questions you just asked and receive it in a sealed box that only you (the committee) has opened and which has an airtight guarentee that the box has been in storage since the time in the past when it was sealed. That's pretty strong evidence.
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:22 PM   #14
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I like the way you people think. (Adds to personal QL mythology that at some point after ST, but at least after Raped, Al took committee members into the IC, touched them flesh to flesh, and prove that some random person in the past was Sam by interviewing him and letting them hear - or at least read - his answers. Works for me.)
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by bluedana
I like the way you people think. (Adds to personal QL mythology that at some point after ST, but at least after Raped, Al took committee members into the IC, touched them flesh to flesh, and prove that some random person in the past was Sam by interviewing him and letting them hear - or at least read - his answers. Works for me.)
Hey...I'm not saying it HAPPENED...the question was posed was there anyway that they could have proved Sam was in the past. It COULD have happened (you'll have to ask Bellasario if he ever played that out in his mind.) We could MAKE it happen in a fanfic (but then it isn't canon...) Oh well.

Again...the lockbox idea may or may not have happened. But it certainly COULD have had Bellasario wanted to do that.
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:37 PM   #16
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But surely they would see the leapees aura and not Sam as Sam?
I think, since Al sees Sam as Sam, anyone seeing the image by touching Al would also see Sam as Sam. I'm not certain of that, since they never confirm what Verbena saw, or the girl in Raped, but to me it makes sense.
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:07 PM   #17
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Yeah...interview him. If he knows things that only Sam would know. Questions that Al COULDN'T have coached him on before. Then seeing him in the aura would just prove the rest of the story.

Personally, I think the lockbox one would be even more airtight. How do you get a letter from the past that answers the exact questions you just asked and receive it in a sealed box that only you (the committee) has opened and which has an airtight guarentee that the box has been in storage since the time in the past when it was sealed. That's pretty strong evidence.
That could work but again how do they know that the date on the envelope was not falsified?
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Old 07-25-2007, 04:12 PM   #18
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people always have a way to tamper with evidence and have different conjectures, hence the "practice of law." how many years did it take women and black people to have similar rights to men? we're still struggling to this day. men and women, of caucasian heritage still do not get the same pay, prejudice is alive and well, hence the reason why i have NO african american co workers at either job (a convenience store and a chain drug store)...i can go on and on...
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Old 07-25-2007, 04:43 PM   #19
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I think, since Al sees Sam as Sam, anyone seeing the image by touching Al would also see Sam as Sam. I'm not certain of that, since they never confirm what Verbena saw, or the girl in Raped, but to me it makes sense.
Not to me, Al is the only one who's brainwaves are connected with Sam's hence him being able to see and hear Sam at all let alone as himself. Just touching Al does not create a brianwave connection between Sam and a third party.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:12 AM   #20
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Not to me, Al is the only one who's brainwaves are connected with Sam's hence him being able to see and hear Sam at all let alone as himself. Just touching Al does not create a brianwave connection between Sam and a third party.
If that were true, Sam couldn't have seen Verbena or Katie McBane, because it would work both ways, wouldn't it?

If you could prove an unbroken chain of possession by a neutral party or parties of the letter in question, you could prove the date of the letter was not falsified, which was the point one of the previous posters was making about Price Waterhouse. Western Union would work, too.
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Old 07-26-2007, 01:55 PM   #21
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If that were true, Sam couldn't have seen Verbena or Katie McBane, because it would work both ways, wouldn't it?
Yes he could have.

Al(Shock Theater): Well You can't hear her because touching her only brings in the image.

And the only reason they could hear Katie Mcbane was being there was an ajustment to the imaging chamber.

And remember the ONLY way that Gooshi was able to stand in for Al in Killin' Time was to create a brainwave connection between him and Sam.
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:05 PM   #22
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For the interviewing "Proof" it wouldn't matter if they saw Sam as Sam or not. Indeed, it would be better if they DIDN'T see Sam as Sam.

Asking someone multiple questions that only the person in question could answer would show that the other person was either that person or incredibly psychic (never completely proven with statistical certainty although anecdotal (story) evidence would argue that psychic phenomena has some basis in reality.) I guess a third was would be if someone was "feeding" the person in question but that could theoretically be 'controlled.' (I say theoretically because many "magic" or illusionist shows have that very situation...part of the smoke and mirrors.)

I personally think the chain of custody letter scenario would be the best proof. Places that can prove a chain of custody have incredible ways of maintaining that chain of custody. They have to or they lose their credibility and thus their livelihood.

The other scenario (the fact that the government already HAS the proff in the form of Max Stoddards' interview) is also a good way to show that the good doctor is indeed in the past.
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Old 07-26-2007, 03:41 PM   #23
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Not to me, Al is the only one who's brainwaves are connected with Sam's hence him being able to see and hear Sam at all let alone as himself. Just touching Al does not create a brianwave connection between Sam and a third party.
The thing is, without a brainwave connection, how would it work? Why would simply touching Al cause another person to see an image that's generated inside Al's brain? They don't explain how it happens, but it has to be causing the image to appear in the third person's brain also.

Cookiemom's point is valid--if there's no brainwave connection with the third person (Verbena or Katie), Sam wouldn't be able to see that person either.

The whole thing is pretty hokey, I mean, there's no attempt at a technological explanation. It's magic. But I happen to like this kind of magic.

asearcher--what is "proff"? If it's not in Webster's, I'm clueless.
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:07 PM   #24
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I have a question,that may be a bit out of context,but i'll ask it anyway -
Is Al seeing the people in the waiting room as who they are,or as Sam?! What about the rest of the crew,that works in project "Quantum Leap"?
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:49 PM   #25
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The thing is, without a brainwave connection, how would it work? Why would simply touching Al cause another person to see an image that's generated inside Al's brain? They don't explain how it happens, but it has to be causing the image to appear in the third person's brain also.

Cookiemom's point is valid--if there's no brainwave connection with the third person (Verbena or Katie), Sam wouldn't be able to see that person either.

The whole thing is pretty hokey, I mean, there's no attempt at a technological explanation. It's magic. But I happen to like this kind of magic.

asearcher--what is "proff"? If it's not in Webster's, I'm clueless.
*pokes my last post*
Sam and Al are the only ones connected to Ziggy by their brainwaves which connects them in the imaching chamber, and Gooshi could not have taken over in Killin Time without Ziggy creating a connection between her self and him.

And also remember Sam can also see any object touching Al such as his cigars and Handlink. I think touching Al gives the third party a temporary link.
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