216 Freedom

Freedom

  • Total voters
    29
alsplacebartender

alsplacebartender

Al's Place Bartender - Brian Greene
Staff member
Jul 10, 2002
5,977
343
83
Mount Airy, North Carolina
www.quantumleap-alsplace.com
Freedom
November 22, 1970

Nevada, Utah, and Wyoming


As a Native American, Sam must help his grandfather make it to the reservation to die in peace. But the town sheriff is out to stop them and the old Indian's granddaughter wants him to be kept safe in a nursing home.


Written by: Chris Ruppenthal
Directed by: Alan J. Levi


Rate and comment on this episode!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That was a great episode! I am not sure of the reason why I very rarely watched QL in 89-93, if ever, but I'm guessing because of the show "Full House". But, even in the early years of that sitcom, I wasn't watching. I can't remember that part of my life back then since I was 6 in 1989. *sigh* Such a shame that I was too young to get into Quantum Leap- the greatest scifi/drama on Earth! :D

~Steve(aka RossBeckett)
"To infinity and jelly doughnuts."-Jeff Mackay from Magnum P.I.
 
i loved this episode becasue it's so interesting how George and Sam are so alike and that thier fathers died when they were both 21.

it was also facinating how at many times in the episode Joesph appeared to be talking to Sam rather than his grandson.
 
I loved all the native american mysticism and all the native american humor ("I love it when they beat the Cowboys! Go, Redskins!") but also loved the scene when Joseph says he can see it in Sam's eyes that he's killed two men. Which would be accurate at this point in the series - Roget in "Honeymoon Express" and Nicky in "Her Charm."
 
The episode and stuff...

cookiemom6067 said:
but also loved the scene when Joseph says he can see it in Sam's eyes that he's killed two men. Which would be accurate at this point in the series - Roget in "Honeymoon Express" and Nicky in "Her Charm."
Click to expand...
That the thing didn't Trojan's brother in "A Portrait for Troian" died too,after Sam jumped at him and they both fale into the lake?!
it Seemed to me that Sam and Trojan were the only two people,who survivd there...

Anyway to the episode itself - the first half of the episode were great.I really enjoyed it,but the rest...I found the last 20 min. or so disappointing. it's seems like the episode lost something in the way. maybe a big part of that was all those little jokes of Joseph,which i found,after the first 4 or 5 jokes, annoying.
 
That the thing didn't Trojan's brother in "A Portrait for Troian" died too,after Sam jumped at him and they both fale into the lake?!
it Seemed to me that Sam and Trojan were the only two people,who survivd there...
Click to expand...
You're right that the brother died, but he drowned. Sam didn't kill him. Sam stabbed Roger on purpose, and shot Nicky on purpose. When the brother fell into the lake, Sam failed to save him, but I don't think that counts as killing him.

I liked the way they didn't cop out with a happy ending - Sam barely fulfills his mission and his crying at the end is heartbreaking. But my favorite moment is when Sam whips out his bucknife, grabs the Sheriff's hair, and is totally ready to scalp the guy. The look on his face is awesome.

I wasn't crazy about this episode when I first saw it (mystical minority storylines usually bug me), but when I re-watched it, I realized that Joseph was consciously playing up the TV-and-movie "Indian" thing, like when he does the fire chant and then pulls out the lighter.
 
Well Sam did shove Jimmy into the lake as he ran for Troian (knowing Sam Jimmy was likely just in his way, it was not a purposeful thing), but it was not Sam's fault that Jimmy did not learn to swim and thus be able to stay above water. So techniqually that death, Sam can not be blamed for.
 
In the other hand - you didn't see Sam trying to save Jimmy... So maybe in some way he supposed to feel guilty about Jimmy's dead he didn't really try to prevent.
 
How do you know Sam didn't try to save Jimmy. The scene cuts from Sam coming to the surface with Troian to them on the shore with the police. We don't know what happened in that time period and whether or not Sam did or didn't try to find Jimmy. Without that in-between knowledge, you can't really say what did or didn't happen.
 
Sam Beckett Fan said:
Well Sam did shove Jimmy into the lake as he ran for Troian (knowing Sam Jimmy was likely just in his way, it was not a purposeful thing), but it was not Sam's fault that Jimmy did not learn to swim and thus be able to stay above water. So techniqually that death, Sam can not be blamed for.
Click to expand...

That excuse would never hold up in a court of law. You can't just go around shoving people in the water and saying, "Oh, gosh, I didn't know he couldn't swim." Everyone knows a pond is a drowning hazard.

I don't recall the details of the scene, so I don't know if it was an accident or if Sam intentionally shoved Jimmy into the lake. Either way I think he could be charged with manslaughter for causing Jimmy's death. But this isn't a court of law, it's a TV show, so we can give Sam the benefit of the doubt, meaning it was probably an accident.

Anyway, back to "Freedom." I really, really dislike this episode. The only good part about it is that they give Joseph a chance to talk about his philosophy. The spectacle of Sam running around stealing things, shooting at people, dragging a very sick old man up a mountain on horseback in the winter--just ridiculous. I know the old man is the one who instigated all those things, but it's just not believable to me. If they really wanted to do a cowboys-and-Indians shtick, they needed to set the episode before 1900, and they can't do that.

They could have done an episode about the real American Indian Movement that was happening in 1970, a contemporary, realistic story, instead of this attempt to revive a past that was gone.

when I re-watched it, I realized that Joseph was consciously playing up the TV-and-movie "Indian" thing, like when he does the fire chant and then pulls out the lighter.
Click to expand...

That was one of the moments I liked, genuinely humorous and something I think an Indian might do.
 
Well Troian was under for a pretty long time so he probably needed to give her mouth to mouth or something to help her breathe again which would have made it too late for him to jump back in for Jimmy because he'd probably already be dead.

Eaither way though I don't think Sam would have felt that he deserved saving he was a bad guy. And before you say "But he saved the bad guy in The Wrong stuff" I am going to beat you to it, in that case Dr. Winger was not really a bad guy his eyes and heart just needed to be opened. Or thats my opinion anyway. Whereas Jimmy felt he needed to kill his sister to pay off a gambling debt which is just plain evil and who's to say that Jimmy was even supposed to be saved? It seems to me that that would just contiune the problem and thus give Sam a new job. Much like Her Charm when Sam got Danna through her expiration time but he only managed to change it because the bad guy had to be dead for her to be fully saved. This seems to me like this would have been a simular case in which the victum can not be declared safe until the bad guy is dead.

Snish said:
That excuse would never hold up in a court of law. You can't just go around shoving people in the water and saying, "Oh, gosh, I didn't know he couldn't swim." Everyone knows a pond is a drowning hazard.
Click to expand...
Yeah but in this case the victum is guilty of attempted murder, he deserved to die and it was possibly the only way to save Troian. It was done in someone's defense so therefore Sam is not guilty.

btw sorry I know you wanted to get back to the subject at hand which is Freedom but your post beat mine I was typing this first to respond to Julia. so :p
lol. :)
 
Okay, isz, I just went and watched the scene (sheesh, the things I do for my friends). Grandfather says the handprints signify "men killed in battle." Jimmy wouldn't qualify, as that was, at worst, involuntary manslaughter. Roger and Nicky definitely merited handprints.

And now the DVD is sitting in the player, calling to me.
 
I don't get how the word manslaughter can be used for pushing someone in a lake to drownd. I would think that the word more qualifies for Roger and Nick.
 
There are different degress of killing. Manslaughter is a lesser degree than murder. Here's a legal definition of manslaughter which explains it's difference from murder

MANSLAUGHTER - The unlawful killing of a human being without malice or premeditation, either express or implied; distinguished from murder, which requires malicious intent.

The distinctions between manslaughter and murder, consists in the following: In the former, though the act which occasions the death be unlawful, or likely to be attended with bodily mischief, yet the malice, either express or implied, which is the very essence of murder, is presumed to be wanting in manslaughter.

It also differs from murder in this, that there can be no accessaries before the fact, there having been no time for premeditation. Manslaugbter is voluntary, when it happens upon a sudden heat; or involuntary, when it takes place in the commission of some unlawful act.

The cases of manslaughter may be classed as follows those which take place in consequence of: 1. Provocation. 2. Mutual combat. 3. Resistance to public officers, etc. 4. Killing in the prosecution of an unlawful or wanton act. 5. Killing in the prosecution of a lawful act, improperly performed, or performed without lawful authority.

The provocation which reduces the killing from murder to manslaughter is an answer to the presumption of malice which the law raises in every case of homicide; it is therefore no answer when express malice is proved and to be available the provocation must have been reasonable and recent, for no words or slight provocation will be sufficient, and if the party has had time to cool, malice will be inferred.

In cases of mutual combat, it is generally manslaughter only when one of the parties is killed. When death ensues from duelling the rule is different, and such killing is murder.

The killing of an officer by resistance to him while acting under lawful authority is murder; but if the officer be acting under a void or illegal authority, or out of his jurisdiction, the killing is manslaughter, or excusable homicide, according to the circumstances of the case.

Killing a person while doing an act of mere wantonness, is manslaughter as, if a person throws down stones in a coal-pit, by which a man is killed, although the offender was only a trespasser.

When death ensues from the performance of a lawful act, it may, in consequence of the negligence of the offender, amount to manslaughter. For instance, if the death has been occasioned by negligent driving. Again, when death ensues, from the gross negligence of a medical or surgical practitioner, it is manslaughter.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m013.htm
Click to expand...

What Roget and Nick Kochifas did (or attempted to do) would most likely be classified at First Degree Murder

first degree murder n. although it varies from state to state, it is generally a killing which is deliberate and premeditated (planned, after lying in wait, by poison or as part of a scheme), in conjunction with felonies such as rape, burglary, arson, involving multiple deaths, the killing of certain types of people (such as a child, a police officer, a prison guard, a fellow prisoner), or with certain weapons, particularly a gun. The specific criteria for first degree murder are established by statute in each state and by the United States Code in federal prosecutions. It is distinguished from second degree murder in which premeditation is usually absent, and from manslaughter which lacks premeditation and suggests that at most there was intent to harm rather than to kill.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/first%20degree%20murderhttp://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/first degree murderhttp://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/first degree murder
http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m053.htm
Click to expand...
 
Ah ok I didn't realize before, thanx for that Julia.
In that case Jimmy is likewise guilty to Sam for attempted manslaughter because he very nearly threw his sister into the lake WITH knowledge that she can't swim because he wanted her dead. So I think Sam's case would win over his. He deserved to be killed.

Ok so I will go ahead and proceed to say some stuff about Freedom then sorry fo keeping it so off topic.

I liked this episode, the ending is really really sad but I really liked the Josoph and his very wise knowledge. I loved the whold lecture he gave Sam about the grasshopper leaping out of one skin and into another and that life is a series of leaps. And I also really liked the whole thing we have been talking about that led off topic with the hand prints on the horses, and how Josoph saw in Sam's eyes how many handprints he needed. Its so suspicious, I really think that some part of him detected Sam but not as Sam of course just some white man that appears to be traveling. To me its a very moving episode.
 
I have PMed Snish and we have decided to end the Jimmy discussion.

I just want to say now, that we should keep it on topic now I am sorry I was keeping it off I just had a few views to share I had only intended that first post on the Jimmy thing I had not meant to lead this thread so off topic. This is why I got back on the topic in my last post I was hoping to re-birth the Freedom conversation as is supposed to be held here.

If the off topic discussion contiunes than this shall be my final post in this thread as I want to be respectful as well as staying out of trouble by keeping myself away from a potential scene. I dislike argument anyway, I prefer cooperation to confrintation.
 
Last edited:
Ok so I just have to mention this. I watched Freedom today with my workout and I cried at the end, I forgot but the end of this episode always gets some tears out of me, and poor Sam who seemed to grow to love Josoph like his own grandfather, he taught him so much. He even tells him that he wants him to stay alive becuase there is so much he could learn from him, and I don't think he was speaking for the grandson, I think that was Sam's big warm heart speaking.

So Yeah I even had to cease my workout a few seconds early because I was crying to much I could not contiune. Poor Sam. :cry
 
Oh, I totally agree!!! This is one of my favorite ones. I start to choke up when Sam is yelling at the sherriff at the end, before they cross the river. I love's Scott's acting in this one, and the script itself is great - makes you laugh and cry, and Joseph twisting things in a funny way, not to mention the wise things he says.
 
I really enjoyed this episode. It's another really humaine story. And I also love how Joseph seems to look straight through Sam, or does he? I love that question remaining open. And Sam tries to think with his head being the doctor, which does aid Joseph , and being reasonable and logical and ends up thinking completely with his heart at the end. Nice. Yeah I usually cry when Joseph dies :)

There is some elements that didn't quite work for me, not sure why maybe the "baddies" weren't really convincing me. And something else mainly about the second storyline, I'm not sure what, I'd have to look at it again, maybe something about the way it was shot... not sure.

The concept really worked for me.:)
 
I really enjoyed this episode as well, Joseph was a really funny character and I found myself enjoying his wit. I do have one complaint, however, I think Sam was taken a bit out of character. During the jail break scene he agreed to do it. Now Sam, being the eternal boyscout that he his, I don't think would just agree to break out of jail without knowing the situation first. he didn't know what he had to do until Al showed up outside of town. Just a thought. Other than that though I love this episode.
 
Well, I always figured it that Sam figured since the sheriff was willing to beat him to a pulp for no reason, it was probably that breaking out of the jail was a step in the right direction toward what he had to do.
 
Seeing as this show has God (or at least some kind of supernatural Providence as in "GTFW") as its driving force, occasionally references God/the devil, and often evokes supernatural or paranormal folklore, it was a pleasant surprise to have Sam in this episode raise the possibility of there being "nothing beyond [Death's] door".

I think we could have used more of this balanced healthy skepticism on his part throughout the show. I mean, for a scientist (and a physicist at that) he was sure quick to accept, if not outright endorse, some really extraordinary claims that, in our reality at least, would require extraordinarily solid evidence in order to be taken seriously. Angels, demons, mythical creatures... even his exuberance in the UFO episode, as endearing as it was, was a bit too much.

While the show's campy moments were often part of its charm (i.e. Al's reactions to many of the situations they face), a greater sense of realism would have been appreciated and would have added even more. That is despite the fact that the very premise of the show, while being classified as SF, was not very "science-y" in its mechanics... the basic formula worked and that's what matters.
 
Actually, I found that Sam showed a lot of skepticism and didn't accept something as true without some kind of proof.

To use two of the examples referenced above:

Sam didn't accept that Angelita could possibly be an angel until he'd seen some unexplainable events happen with regard to her. Once he lost his memory of who she was (and thus, the memory of those events), hre regained his skepticism.

Sam's quoted as saying to Al in "MIA" that there is no devil (or words to that effect). It's not until he confronted with the reality that he loses his skepticism.

Another example, in "The Curse of Ptah Hotep", when everyone around him keeps assigning blame for everything that's happened to the curse and the mummy, Sam's the one who keeps denying that. It's not until the end that he enterains the thought that mummy might be coming back to life.

Finally, in "Blood Moon", when Al keeps saying that Sam's leaped into a vampire, Sam keeps denying that as well to the point of poking fun of Al. Again, it's not until the end when he can't see his reflection that he even entertains the idea that vampire's are real and that's what he's leaped into.
 
I LOVE Native American belief and culture. I found that this episode was very well written. My favorite picture from it is after Joseph had died and he was laying on the ground. Sam and the girl (darned if I can't remember her name) were next to him, and Al was standing there in his duster jacket looking quite like the angel of death or something. It was just so powerful for me. A powerful episode in all, partly because it didn't show the stoic Indian brave, but the soft, yet firm, Native male with a special sense of humor.
 
Very good episode but not excellent like many of the other Chris Ruppenthal episodes. It's still one of my favorites and one that I always want to watch again. Loved Joseph and his philosophy, but sometimes he preached it in the most inadequate places, and loved his humor as well, but sometimes it was a bit over-the-top and many of the Al's reactions to his humor were also a bit exaggerating. Some of the scenes, especially towards the end of the episode when they've reached the mountans and are about to cross the state-line dragged a little bit.

Loved how most of this episode took place outside, loved the drama, and especially loved the ending, Sam's mission in itself, its non-conventional way: Instead of saving someone this time, he had to help him die in peace. Very difficult for Sam but he managed to do so. Sam's last words [to the sheriff, while he's carrying Joseph in his arms] touched my heart and actually made me roll a tear or two.

As much as the sheriff may seem one-dimensional and cliched, he wasn't. Shamefully there are real people like him. And I didn't care much for the sister. She was a neutral character. Loved the hawk, haha!

By the way, Joseph was right: Warm water is hell!

My rating: Good.

Edit: I know I said before that I thought that this one was one of Chris' best screenplays, but, as time goes by, things get to turn out differently.
 
The only reason I voted good instead of excellent is because I think when Sam leapt out, the leapee would have been in a worse position than he was in the original history...
 
JuliaM said:
Actually, I found that Sam showed a lot of skepticism and didn't accept something as true without some kind of proof.

To use two of the examples referenced above:

Sam didn't accept that Angelita could possibly be an angel until he'd seen some unexplainable events happen with regard to her. Once he lost his memory of who she was (and thus, the memory of those events), hre regained his skepticism.

Sam's quoted as saying to Al in "MIA" that there is no devil (or words to that effect). It's not until he confronted with the reality that he loses his skepticism.

Another example, in "The Curse of Ptah Hotep", when everyone around him keeps assigning blame for everything that's happened to the curse and the mummy, Sam's the one who keeps denying that. It's not until the end that he enterains the thought that mummy might be coming back to life.

Finally, in "Blood Moon", when Al keeps saying that Sam's leaped into a vampire, Sam keeps denying that as well to the point of poking fun of Al. Again, it's not until the end when he can't see his reflection that he even entertains the idea that vampire's are real and that's what he's leaped into.
Click to expand...

Yet I find the opposite in Temptation Eyes (psychics) and It's a Wonderful Leap (angels), where Al becomes the cynic. It seems a bit inconsistent.
 
bluedana said:
Okay, isz, I just went and watched the scene (sheesh, the things I do for my friends). Grandfather says the handprints signify "men killed in battle." Jimmy wouldn't qualify, as that was, at worst, involuntary manslaughter. Roger and Nicky definitely merited handprints.

And now the DVD is sitting in the player, calling to me.
Click to expand...

What about "Dreams"? Or did that episode come later?
 
JuliaM said:
Actually, I found that Sam showed a lot of skepticism and didn't accept something as true without some kind of proof.

Sam didn't accept that Angelita could possibly be an angel until he'd seen some unexplainable events happen with regard to her. Once he lost his memory of who she was (and thus, the memory of those events), hre regained his skepticism.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen that episode in a while, but I think Sam believed the angel thing pretty early on. And then there's "Temptation Eyes"
 
To answer your question Servo, Sam believes in forces of good and dismisses forces of evil, which is why he believes in God, angels and psychics and dismisses mummies, vampires, ghosts and Satan.

Al is the other way around, with all the hardships in his life, he believes in evil forces and is skeptical of the good...
 
Wonderful episode. I loved the outdoors setting, Joseph's humor (often self-deprecating), and Sam and Al's appreciation of Joseph and his wisdom. The whole "Indian" and "white man" narrative was done well, and even the characters never said anything derogatory (unlike some of the other racially fueled episodes in the show). I love Joseph's line "You shoot like a white man!"

I wasn't really sure why Susan was included in the episode, other than to add some conflict? I don't feel her addition was as powerful as the writer(s) would have liked.

As much as I liked the main character and the setting, the whole thing didn't quite mash together for me, so I rate this one as Good.

Though I did enjoy Joseph's grasshopper speech in the cave.
 
A decent, but not great episode this one. I do adore many things about it, but I do have a few niggles with it. First of all, I feel like the pacing is a bit off at the beginning. The whole deal with Sam just agreeing to break out of jail just seems to happen too quick. I think we needed a scene with Al before Sam went ahead with that.

I do love the character of Joseph. He's just so hilarious and yet wise at the same time. By far my favourite scene of the episode is the one in the small cave. I don't know for sure, but I think at this point Joseph knows that this isn't his grandson he's talking to. Maybe because he's edging closer towards death, I'm not sure. But I do believe he at least knows something is up.

The ending of this episode bugs me. In fact, it drags it down from a good to an average rating. Why? Because of Joseph's death. Not because I think it shouldn't have happened, but because I didn't agree with the way it was done. I think him getting shot just felt...wrong. It was a violent end for a character that didn't deserve it. Him just dying of natural causes due to the stress and intensity of the situation would have been better. I also don't like the fact that this seems like a real case of a failed leap. I'm not even sure Joseph dies in the reservation. He seemed to die before they'd finished crossing the river. I just think this part could have been done a little better.

My rating. Average. A good episode with a very poor ending.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back