Spoiler and Speculation Discussion -After the Season 2 Finale

[Starbright]

First wow. That was really good if you haven't watched it go do that first











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So lets talk about all the big stuff.

I saw the revelation about Gideon Ridge being Jeffery coming a mile away but you know what it was still good and I like the message there because he was never evil but what happened is so understandable and yes bitterness and pain can twist someone and lead them into dark places especially with the understandable misunderstanding about his father's fate. And since he knows about the project and is now a friend the character could even recur and probably should.

We got to watch some serious Butterfly Effect/Paradox in action and actually got some good technobabble/world building about the paradox threshold -works for me.

I had tears in my eyes when Beth and Janis told the team about what Sam did for Al; and yet I realize the time line where the team learned was erased. That was a call back for us who love the original series *and* important knowledge for new viewers - but for the characters that is still a revelation that needs to happen again. At first I was disappointed but then I thought about it more. I would have liked to sit in that revelation a bit more. but perhaps we didn't precisely because it *is* a setup for a much more powerful use of that knowledge in the future. Now newer or casual viewers of the original know what Sam did for Al and that Janis knows the truth.

Addison most likely remembers or at least did before she leaped - does she still remember - that means telling Ben potentially but maybe not HQ , Magic *may* know from Beth, and Ian seems to have at least a vague awareness of being in a another time line so maybe more info will surface. Any chance of telling without

Very glad Jen now survives

The new dynamic is quite interesting, there are so many options. If we stay with two or more leapers - we didn't see the project after so we don't know if anyone came home. Could this be Sam or perhaps Alia arriving? Some other leaper?

Two leapers with two holograms and do they dare use the swap code ever again?. Plus we as long term fans know the duo leaper thing could have been season 6. Honestly I'm interested to try it.

So is it perm duo leapers? Is it a situation where they can switch places but only if they share a leap first then one of them gets to go home but not the other?. That option could have its own interesting dynamic?

Janis and Beth still need to meet post leap Sam - Magic needs to met him also. That is closure that is now set up. Really hoping we get more of Beth and Janis, it was so good to see Janis again. I also want to know about Alia, Sami Jo, Donna, Sam's siblings, etc.

I really like how this series is managing to balance being its own thing with connective tissue to the original - its not perfect, there are times it is flawed, but most of the time I like it, once in awhile I love it like I did the original series. We still need Scott to appear- we need a third season and beyond - but I am legitimately enjoying the story they are telling as well as the expanding of this universe. The callbacks to the original series give me a special happiness but these last two eps were just really really good- I hope they are enough to entice new viewers who haven't watched the original to dive in while still appreciating what is taking place now.

At some point in third season we meet Sam - lets see if I end up being right - maybe its even the season premiere maybe it isn't, but I think we have the groundwork for getting a lot more of Sam's story and having more interaction with people who matter from the original show. I am also hoping at some point we get *young* Al played by an actor that has what it takes to build an incredible homage. Done right it could be beautiful and be a really special moment for Beth, Janis, and Sam. A scene as powerful as the dance in MIA. Think about some of the adventures in the colorful life of young Al. If they cast this right he could even recur. And playing guardian angel to young Al is also among the many plausible ways they might find the older Sam Beckett if he doesn't step out of the accelerator in the season 3 premiere.

As for the season 2 Coda- I'm curious where Ben and Addison find themselves and why - it looks like a lot is going on and I can't wait to find out more.

Do you think we will see more of the Tom we met this season, Hannah, Jeffrey?

What important pieces of the original narrative still need to be revealed or do you most want to see?

Do you think Addison remembers that revelation about Beth and Janis and will she tell Ben, did she tell the others before leaping because right now it looks like she was so busy realizing that Jenn was back to alive that she didn't talk about it?

Is Ian still destined to Leap with a revised version of a swap code? Does he still in fact have to leap in order to make sure Ben does?

Do you think the evil project has been outright erased? Is Alia still out there anyway as a leaper, a relic of another timeline? Is it still destined to happen?

Do you want to see a revised version of leaper x back as an ally?

There are so many things to ponder both meta and in universe.

I can't wait for season 3

 

[McDuck]

So much great discussion, I will have to come back to this when I have more time to devote to it, but a couple of points I want to hit.

Jeffrey absolutely became evil as Gideon Ridge--he had Jenn murdered, he was planning on wreaking havoc throughout history. His anger at Ben consumed him and went from pain to evil. However, Ben was able to divert him from that path.

I think Addison absolutely remembers what Beth and Janis told her, all of it. Because she was IN the Imaging Chamber, basically insulated and protected, when history was reset. This was a conceit that the novels did quite well--that Al remembered the way things originally were as well as how they were changed when he stepped out of the Imaging Chamber. There are several well done fanfics concerning him stepping out of the Imaging Chamber AFTER Sam left the Bartender and having the "new" memories catch up to him. I love that the new show is entertaining this.

This is all I have time for at the moment but I plan on nibbling on the excellent thoughts you've put down, and seeing what the flavors bring out and what nourishing thoughts might come from it! The finale was SO GOOD!

 

[CaptCleghorn]

The butterfly effect is nothing new to QL. We saw it in Honeymoon Express as well as Al recognizing the change in Senators. Leap for Lisa had the guards outside Sam's door disappear when Bingo leapt and kept Chip busy. The blue glow around Al is also probably a butterfly effect as well.

Tom? I'm not sure how to fit him in. I was positive there was a plan to save his wife in The Outsider, but that didn't happen. Then again, when he hears Addison has leaped, there should be some reaction.

Hannah? Does anyone doubt there will be at least one Hannah leap where she can actually meet Addison in person? Then again, if Hannah realizes Addison is stuck as well, that formula will get some hard work done with it.

I expect two leapers for a while, possibly through the entire third season. It's a big idea and one which writers hopefully are anxious to tackle. As for Ben and Addison, morals of physical lovemaking with borrowed bodies will certainly come up. Because, you know, four plus years. Ben's untrained but experienced while Addison is trained but a newbie.

And Sam. His ending was horrible. Sure, he wants to help and that's who he is, but he was guilty about neglecting his family, missing his father's funeral, etc. Leaping without saying goodbye to his wife, daughter, and best friend was what the old Sam Beckett was guilty of and why he wanted to change himself. Then there's the entire "will Scott do it?" question.

 

[Spartan83]

The butterfly effect is nothing new to QL. We saw it in Honeymoon Express as well as Al recognizing the change in Senators. Leap for Lisa had the guards outside Sam's door disappear when Bingo leapt and kept Chip busy. The blue glow around Al is also probably a butterfly effect as well.

That there is another example of how QL 2.0 retconns some of the old tactics and technologies - the very same butterfly effect also occurs when Sam posts the letter to gooshie in 1945 so as to open the image chamber door, it's not a new tactic.

Plus, as much as Hannah's new code was to get him 'home' all it ended up doing was needing a swap leaper to take his place lol Donna and Gooshie already did this very same manoeuvre (without a code) when they leapt Sam back into Al to replace him and bring him back in the same episode.

 

[McDuck]

Things have been crazy busy, so I apologize for how LONG it has taken me to come back to this!

I saw the revelation about Gideon Ridge being Jeffery coming a mile away but you know what it was still good and I like the message there because he was never evil but what happened is so understandable and yes bitterness and pain can twist someone and lead them into dark places especially with the understandable misunderstanding about his father's fate. And since he knows about the project and is now a friend the character could even recur and probably should.

I hope if he does recur he isn't a total goodie-two-shoes, though. That would be boring.

I had tears in my eyes when Beth and Janis told the team about what Sam did for Al; and yet I realize the time line where the team learned was erased. That was a call back for us who love the original series *and* important knowledge for new viewers - but for the characters that is still a revelation that needs to happen again. At first I was disappointed but then I thought about it more. I would have liked to sit in that revelation a bit more. but perhaps we didn't precisely because it *is* a setup for a much more powerful use of that knowledge in the future. Now newer or casual viewers of the original know what Sam did for Al and that Janis knows the truth.

Yes, that was such an emotional moment (although, as I've pointed out elsewhere, they got a major detail about Al and Beth messed up via a single verb choice. But we've PCR'd that in Al and Beth must have had a vow renewal ceremony and Janis misunderstands the history.). I would love to know more about how that lore was a part of the Calavicci family history. Is Janis the only one of the daughters who knows because of her connection to Al's work?

Addison most likely remembers or at least did before she leaped - does she still remember - that means telling Ben potentially but maybe not HQ , Magic *may* know from Beth, and Ian seems to have at least a vague awareness of being in a another time line so maybe more info will surface. Any chance of telling without

I replied earlier that I'm positive Addison remembers (does that carry through into her Leaping?). I can't imagine Magic not knowing. Interesting thoughts about Ian....

Very glad Jen now survives

Same. And I'm pleased they were willing to sacrifice her. Even though I had a feeling things would be undone, it was powerful.

The new dynamic is quite interesting, there are so many options. If we stay with two or more leapers - we didn't see the project after so we don't know if anyone came home. Could this be Sam or perhaps Alia arriving? Some other leaper?

Two leapers with two holograms and do they dare use the swap code ever again?. Plus we as long term fans know the duo leaper thing could have been season 6. Honestly I'm interested to try it.

I wonder if it would be two holograms or if one hologram would have to try to work with both of them. That could make for some dramatic storylines.

I assume that Ben and Addison are somewhere in England in WWII. That's a story I really would love to see how it's going to play out!

So is it perm duo leapers? Is it a situation where they can switch places but only if they share a leap first then one of them gets to go home but not the other?. That option could have its own interesting dynamic?

I would imagine at some point they're not going to be at the same time and place....unless that's what Hannah's code was entirely designed to do? Bring them together. I do love that "gift of the Magi" aspect where Addison was willing to Leap to bring Ben home, but instead they are reunited in the past.

Janis and Beth still need to meet post leap Sam - Magic needs to met him also. That is closure that is now set up. Really hoping we get more of Beth and Janis, it was so good to see Janis again. I also want to know about Alia, Sami Jo, Donna, Sam's siblings, etc.

Janis for sure needs to be made a permanent character. I agree, I would love some more with Sami Jo and Donna -- especially since Donna has been mentioned in passing. I want to know more about the other Calavicci daughters, too. Did any of them go into science as well? Shoot, let's meet Al and Beth's grandkids!

I really like how this series is managing to balance being its own thing with connective tissue to the original - its not perfect, there are times it is flawed, but most of the time I like it, once in awhile I love it like I did the original series. We still need Scott to appear- we need a third season and beyond - but I am legitimately enjoying the story they are telling as well as the expanding of this universe. The callbacks to the original series give me a special happiness but these last two eps were just really really good- I hope they are enough to entice new viewers who haven't watched the original to dive in while still appreciating what is taking place now.

At some point in third season we meet Sam - lets see if I end up being right - maybe its even the season premiere maybe it isn't, but I think we have the groundwork for getting a lot more of Sam's story and having more interaction with people who matter from the original show. I am also hoping at some point we get *young* Al played by an actor that has what it takes to build an incredible homage. Done right it could be beautiful and be a really special moment for Beth, Janis, and Sam. A scene as powerful as the dance in MIA. Think about some of the adventures in the colorful life of young Al. If they cast this right he could even recur. And playing guardian angel to young Al is also among the many plausible ways they might find the older Sam Beckett if he doesn't step out of the accelerator in the season 3 premiere.

Totally agree!!! That would be such a wonderful thing to do for new and old Leapers. Jamie Walters was very believable as young Al (although why they felt the need to dub Dean's voice over his was silly to me). I'm sure there's someone out there who could do it justice. (Hopefully having studied Dean's performance as Al in the OG series would be a prerequisite for a casting call!)

As for the season 2 Coda- I'm curious where Ben and Addison find themselves and why - it looks like a lot is going on and I can't wait to find out more.

I said above it looks like WWII England to me.

Do you think we will see more of the Tom we met this season, Hannah, Jeffrey?

I imagine that they'll recur at least occasionally....

What important pieces of the original narrative still need to be revealed or do you most want to see?

Why doesn't Ziggy talk??????

Do you think Addison remembers that revelation about Beth and Janis and will she tell Ben, did she tell the others before leaping because right now it looks like she was so busy realizing that Jenn was back to alive that she didn't talk about it?

I could see her discussing with Magic, but maybe not anyone else. Of course, with the "watch the Leap as it happens" of the new QL Tech, there are no private conversations between Leaper and hologram anymore. Or Leaper and people in the past.

Is Ian still destined to Leap with a revised version of a swap code? Does he still in fact have to leap in order to make sure Ben does?

Oh now we're getting into Doctor Strange/Back to the Future/Bill & Ted weeds. What HAS changed as a result of Ben "saving" Gideon Rydge? What had previously been changed as a result of what Ben did to "create" Gideon Rydge? I think Ian's Leap had to happen so it did. With the exception of what reset (and we saw that before with Alia as well as the B*man episode) it all did happen / had to happen / will happen.

Do you think the evil project has been outright erased? Is Alia still out there anyway as a leaper, a relic of another timeline? Is it still destined to happen?

See, I thought Gideon Rydge was en route to becoming Lothos as he took over the Project and planned to wreak havoc in history. WHEN do we think Alia and Zoey and Thames were from? Contemporary to OG PQL or from the future? I would love for Alia and Sam to BOTH be out there and potentially recur. And the new QL has an opportunity to explore Lothos/Evil QL---which I thought we were with Leaper X. I need to rewatch, was he from a QL that was taken over by "new management" or a separate project entirely? I can't remember.

I can't wait for season 3

Same. I have gone from "liking" the new QL to LOVING it.

 

[tina_als_girl]

I wonder if we'll get Janis as a main next season because of the dual Leapers. Sure, more than one can be in the IC at a time, but what if the Leapers get separated? I don't know if they can have two different locations in one IC....

Which means Janis' IC will come in handy and she can be the secondary hologram, gummibear handlink and all.

 

[Ashe]

I wonder if we'll get Janis as a main next season because of the dual Leapers. Sure, more than one can be in the IC at a time, but what if the Leapers get separated? I don't know if they can have two different locations in one IC....

Which means Janis' IC will come in handy and she can be the secondary hologram, gummibear handlink and all.

They did have Ian and Addison separate in The Friendly Skies, so it's something they can do. I do wonder about the logistics since the inside of the Imaging chamber is so small though.

 

[CaptCleghorn]

I wonder if we'll get Janis as a main next season because of the dual Leapers. Sure, more than one can be in the IC at a time, but what if the Leapers get separated? I don't know if they can have two different locations in one IC....

Which means Janis' IC will come in handy and she can be the secondary hologram, gummibear handlink and all.

A Janis hologram as observer is very much looked forward to. But I want Jenn to be Ben and Addison's first hologram just to freak out Ben who still thinks she's dead. Jenn: "Why does everyone think I'm dead?"

 

[CaptCleghorn]

They did have Ian and Addison separate in The Friendly Skies, so it's something they can do. I do wonder about the logistics since the inside of the Imaging chamber is so small though.

The closest example I can think of are the Star Trek holodecks where people can separate from each other. Let's just assume Sam came up with the tech first.

 

[Starbright]

I want to discuss some of these other points, you all raised with the multiple holograms also - but I have something kind of interesting floating around my brain.

I really like Janis as a regular on the series, and more Beth please.

Really cool thoughts on the imaging chamber

I think Alia should still be out there somewhere even if the evil project has been otherwise erased - because she became a leaper. and I think once that happens you are preserved in the time stream (in some fashion) no matter what. At least that is my theory.

I also don't expect to see her without them explaining more about her to newbie and casual viewers - plus the actress went into academia according to a quick google search. So our odds of getting more then a cameo (at best) from her (unless they recast) are not super high. Shame about Hinton Battle (Thames) passing away. Honestly we are probably better to look at a recast for the evil project, if Carolyn Seymour or Renee Coleman want to come back great, I am 100 percent in favor of *anyone* from the original series having access to at least a cameo but I'd rather get the story done right them eliminated because 1 of the major players is dead, and a second has quit the business.

I don't want the evil project to take over the whole story but I'd be open to a real spin off about them and/or Alia.

The current series has teased the Lothos project at least twice now - and why were the records about it fragmented and buried - because they come from a "pruned" /overwritten timeline? Because they don't have a fully functioning Ziggy, because Alia's records were deliberately hidden to protect her? Some other reason?

The new series is also not in *our* timeline we have obvious subtle differences.

I am beginning to think we almost have to be in a scenario where at least a few different realities/timelines are capable of existing but accessing a *preserved* alternate time line is far from easy. AND that each timeline can have its own fluctuations of reality/paradox threshold. I'm beginning to think the key to that is the leaper themselves come from a timeline as long as they don't exceed some paradox threshold they are making changes to their own timeline - so what happens when that threshold is exceeded. Well we saw this now - not changing time that has happened before but when a change directly impacting the project is strong enough we can either get a time line change OR perhaps a timeline split?

We also know the leaper and observer are more protected then just the team but the observer (edited to say observer instead of leaper) can be erased at 100 percent probability of them not being there.

So IF every time someone leaps it potentially creates a parallel timeline *and* every time that leaper creates a *massive* change that directly impacts themselves the timeline may split again - or at least leave some sort of echo/remnant.

Perhaps every timeline needs a dedicated leaper but the timelines only connect at certain points - this covers all sorts of reasons Sam didn't come home - again having fixed all his plausible reasons for getting into a time machine he created a paradox where he can not ever go home/stop leaping unless a reason for him to leap to begin with exists.

And perhaps there are points or circumstances that draw timelines closer together.

If Sam is in a different timelines or is the *glue* holding this timeline stabile - he can't go home.

And remember that multiple members of the revival team became leapers in at least one time line - leaper x says so.

So just how unstable did they make the current time line between that and he cheat code? Perhaps the cheat code was a breaking point and that quantum chip lets them draw timelines together - and that chip existed before Ben sent Hannah to the University - did Jeffrey always exist and has to exist - whether friend or foe - because of the chip. And was the chip needed because Ben also eliminated why he leaped, why Ian leaped etc - aka Ben left himself unconnected to his home reality.

 

[Starbright]

Well I was going to write a whole thing about two holograms and two leapers and how Janice's imaging chamber could work with no accelerator nearby. Now I'm just glad we got Beth and Janice in the series finale - and I *hate* that this was the series finale and hope one of our leapers can right that wrong ---growl. I mean I enjoy theorizing and I enjoy fanfic but I want to see the series prove me wrong or right - that is half the fun of it. This just sucks. I hope we can get a continuation of the Quantum Leap Universe back in some capacity - soon. And I'm not even sure what to do with this sort of discussion now. Save our show if we can - partner with someone to try and either write a story or otherwise put the fully complexity of my theories out there or just walk away disgusted by a good thing finally being back only to have it ripped away.